SPEAKER_03 0:00

I was CrossFit Games one year, and this gentleman walked up to me after one of the competitions where we were on those rowing machines and um half marathon row. And I mean I just beat everyone by like seven minutes. And this guy's like, I'd like to sponsor you. There's this indoor rowing championship up in Boston, and I was in good shape and strong from CrossFit. I was like, all right, I'll give it a shot. And I knew nothing about the sport of rowing except for I was pretty good on this machine. And this was um Olympic champions and um, you know, people from all over the world, and I ended up winning a bronze medal.

SPEAKER_04 0:33

My next guest, his journey in life seems like it's out of a movie. A boy from a broken home that built his armor out of discipline. That discipline gets tested and cracked. But out of that comes faith, family, and a mission. And that mission has turned into an absolute empire. Please, welcome to the show, the stud himself, Mr. Jimmy St. Louis. My man, I'm so glad that you're here. We finally made it happen. You've traveled all the way from Nashville, Tennessee.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Right, man, glad to be here. What a beautiful spot. Got the letter up there for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:31

Yeah, of course, of course. And it it's all because of uh our mutual friend uh Sydney Gordon.

SPEAKER_03 1:36

That's right. We we both love Sydney. He's an easy one to love, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Yeah, he's one of those guys that uh if he calls you and says, hey, dude, this would be great for your podcast, or if he just says, This is a great idea, like he's the man that like he's he I've never met a person that's more connected than Sydney.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

That's right. Yeah, we I was actually just uh chatting with a mutual friend uh Chad Robeshaw, and he and I were joking because this week alone, Chad and I are on five different text chains with Sydney, and it's like Chad and I and Sydney and this person and this person, this person. So uh the the the organization's kind of kind of funny there, but yeah, man, uh super well-connected guy, and yeah, I'm always grateful for the people he introduces me to.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

100%. And and my dad always said, uh, you know, show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are. I mean, he's surrounded by just such a solid group of guys. His daughter has like like built in detailed security that like she has no clue, like the savages that walk, like like I was over there first time I I'd gone there, and like Colton like had you know, she he had she had like um uh some like princess ears on him, and like was like it was like the coolest thing. I'm like, this is like one of the baddest operators in town, and like he's just in there playing. It's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 2:49

Yeah, she yeah, I was just there, I think two weeks ago. And she's over there showing people her gymnastics moves and all that stuff. And yeah, one guy was like you know, loading the gun in the kitchen and you know, getting ready for target practice, and she's looking around, just enjoying her life. Yeah, we actually spend time together at the uh annual um core medical foundation event as well.

SPEAKER_04 3:06

Uh cool.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

We go every year and uh she gets to run around with all those badasses. It's uh pretty cool to see.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Isn't it weird in life how life imitates art and art imitates life?

SPEAKER_05 3:17

I played a ghost facer on Supernatural, one of the greatest ghost hunters of all time. And now I'm sleeping in a ghost bed, a ghost facer in a ghost bed, having the best dreams of his life. Part of the reason why I feel like I haven't caught any ghosts is because ghosts come out at a certain time of night. I'm asleep. I don't even get bothered by the ghost because I'm off in dreamland.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Before when I was on a little crappy mattress in a haunted mansion, I'd wake up because I was uncomfortable. Now that doesn't happen. Now I'm off to sleep, and anything spooky that ain't bothering me. Continue on, spirits, continue on. Go to ghostbed.com forward slash buckley. Code word buckley. Get yourself 10% off. Do what any good ghost facer would do, or any fan of supernatural, because this sleep is so good, it's supernatural. Yeah, it's a really, it's a really uh uh um it what again, what he's what he's put together there. Um, and even when we had him on the show just announcing what that he's done was able to accomplish that. I know you guys are connected in in that way, which is a really big thing. It's such an incredible achievement because of what how hard it's been for our guys, you know, men and women coming back, and you know, if they don't get their 100%, or if they don't, you know, which when I was on SEAL team, I didn't realize that there was this 100% thing, or that you had to go in and and if during combat, if you didn't document the injury pop properly, that you know, these invisible wounds of core that these guys had, um it they wouldn't, the VA wouldn't like, well, you didn't put that down, but yet you'd raise these, you you program these soldiers not to complain, and they would they would just sort of suck it up and and move on, and then there's all these issues when when they get back. So just what he's been able to do with core medical and with guys like yourself, um, and and really put this team around to help our men and women that have done so much for our country.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Well, you know, when you talk about who Sydney is as a person and being generous, giving person and surrounding himself with great people, he didn't go into this with this long-term intention on saying, like, hey, how do we get this VA contract? Or, you know, how do we it was more just like how can I help people that are really in need? And that's where we bonded. Uh come from military family as well, and have some stories and and have have seen some things like you know, in that world also, and to just have the opportunity to meet these unmet needs for people with innovative solutions is a beautiful thing. But for him, it's just been part of the mission and so exciting to see what 17 years in with with core medical, what what he has the opportunity to do to be able to help people. And it's on the other side, it's also interesting where the timing is so important. Right? We we live in the world where this administration is excited about really trying to find ways to be proactive to help, and that's open the doors at the VA as well, where they're saying, okay, but if we've been working so hard to slow down some of these ailments when people come back from from combat and we're not seeing success, maybe we should look at things differently. Yeah. And for them to say, we want to go out and seek answers, and the chance for guys like Sydney and his group, and honored to have the chance to be a part of those conversations and support, to see real movement have the chance to take place is really inspiring.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

I think what blew me away, again, just as a civilian, if I had never done SEAL team, I would have never known what these underlying issues at the VA were and how sort of broke in the systems. And it's it's hard to be like be mad at the VA because it's necessarily not their fault. You know, the military, in my opinion, is great at going to war and and being effective in battle, but outside of that, it's like they just fuck, they suck. Like they don't know how to, you know, and in my mind, I was like, okay, you know, we had a lot of guys that were like Olympic bin Laden mission or you know, you know, at the tip of the spear as far as special operators go. And they were struggling, like they were having a tough time with the VA. So and then I started thinking like, well, what about like these young kids that you know are picked up from these impoverished um uh uh uh low-income cities that go there to for a better thing and they come back and they're messed up, and they're going back right into this impoverished, you know, low-income city with now with all these sort of issues. That's right. And I who's like it sh it shocked me to the core that they're as as big as the machine is that we we we have in the military, we are not good at making sure our guys, our men and women are taken care of when they go back. And that's why it's so I don't think people realize as much as as as I do, or guys like Cindy, like for people like yourself and people like Sydney to step up, and and guys like Gary Sinise, who's a dear friend of mine. And you're in National. Have you met Gary yet in National? Oh, yeah. I gotta connect you guys. He's one of my dearest oldest friends, become a real mentor of mine with the Gary Sinese Foundation is done. Um, but I I think having guys like yourself really step up for our soldiers because they've done so much and they're the worst at asking for help.

unknown 8:51

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

They're the worst, it's adapt and overcome, push it down, push it down, push down, push it down. And then the correlation of hormonal therapy and just basically like just your gut health, getting your gut healthy. You know, the BP, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 9:05

BPC 157, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

And and for leaky gut and how that correlations to brain frog, brain frog, brain frog, right? But uh uh, but all the things that that can do, and just the just the little things that you need to educate um and implement in this helps with this transition back of coming back from combat and getting their reprogramming their system, but having a support group that's like, hey, we're gonna help you. Right? We have one less thing to worry about, we're gonna help you. And being able to help these people and live this country would have the freedoms that we do, it's the least thing that we could do.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

That's right. That's right. And so for me, getting into this part of the world with trying to support our veterans, it was really a relatively simple thought process and transition. Because even outside the VA, more from a macro view perspective, you think about traditional healthcare and we think about the issues of the VA, there's total commonality. In fact, it's the same thing, they follow the same standards of care. And so for businesses like Core or businesses like Mine and Agentis, what we see is we have those businesses because we're meeting unmet needs through better solutions, and in some instances innovative solutions. And that's those unmet needs exist because there's not great physic physician-patient autonomy. There's regulators that don't necessarily understand this world. And the VA really follows suit. They're not running rogue, but the VA does have this opportunity to work to seek answers. And there's, I mean, we I I know that there is mandates from the very top with President Trump saying we we've got to work to fix some of these things. And Secretary Collins is is is behind that. And so that adjacency of just being out there saying, how can we meet unmet needs? But then seeing this very, very specific need in the VA, it's made it so much more inspiring to say, well, we can actually not just participate, but be responsible for fixing something that they've spent billions of dollars trying to fix. And frankly, it's it's it's only gotten worse. And but this is not an uncommon problem in our American healthcare system, period. I mean, I'm a former football guy, and uh of course, it's uh you know, we're a bit more voluntary without their beating ourselves up, and but there's there's the same level of help for them, which is still relatively non-existent. And the the only reason that they these guys, former NFL guys, are able to go and get help is because some scientist and doctor from England found out this thing called CTE and went and attacked the NFL. And the NFL said, All right, let's try to figure out how to protect these guys.

SPEAKER_04 11:50

Is CTE similar then to TBI? Is that TBI would be like the precursor? The precursor. And is that the divots in the in the brain? Like when you map it out where there's the yeah, so so there's a couple things.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

So TBI would be so traumatic brain injury is um in football, you know, it comes from contact, and of course in combat, you know, there's multiple ways that that that you guys would see that from blasts. And when you have TBI, that is a precursor to CTE. And so CTE actually is like a a crystallization of parts of your brain that that um well, first the uh the neuroconnectivity disappears, and those those brain neurons stop firing, and then eventually they they die, and as they die, they start to blacken and then crystallize to the point that that portion of your brain is irreparable. The the challenge is I'm sure there's some new technology coming out, but for many, many years, you weren't able to even diagnose CT until somebody died. Wow. And part of that was discovered by this English physician who didn't even know what American football was and took on one of the largest uh institutions in in America and uh it it brought these things to light. But the point is the the adjacency there is there's massive unmet needs. Uh our American healthcare system oftentimes healthcare consumers go through the system like sheep. They just they go where they're told, and most physicians with traditional training who are not willing to step out of their traditional training also just do what they're told because the system drives them towards insurance. You have to follow procedures to gain reimbursement, and the incentives are just massively misaligned. And then downstream from that, you've got organizations like the VA who adopt those traditional methodologies because that's considered the standard of care. That's the most obvious way to approach it. And when you do that within the VA, where patients don't have the opportunity to pay cash and demand additional, better, more innovative treatment, you're really stuck there in the dark ages. And you know, medicine's looked at like like dinosaurs there. Yeah. But again, then back to where Secretary Collins is, I think he's really inspired to see some real change. There's a number of key initiatives. I I happen to know that this is one of the three most important things at the VA right now. And again, it's really cool to see this opportunity to uh to create some change there. And back to this, the way that I got into this was just that desire to meet unmet needs through innovative solutions. I mean, like, wow, this is a place that we can get started and make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

Now, you're when I was doing research just on you in general, you have such a fascinating story prior to this because you know, it one sense people, you know, NFL, you know, the Olympic rolling team, you know, you know, uh uh this insane longevity company that you've built. Um, but when I started sort of going back, I was like, wow, the journey and the path that you've been on to get here is something that I don't think a lot of people know about. And I think it's probably one of the most inspiring parts of this whole uh uh journey that you're on, and sort of become your mission statement from what you've been through, what you've overcome to then be in a life of of service, being being less selfish and and and um uh uh being selfless. Like you've become very selfless and and just again the last couple weeks just reading up on you, it's it's quite the the story. And what I caught onto is how disciplined you were at such a young age. From 11 to 17, you'd wake up at 5 30 every morning. Is that true? Yeah, oh that's right.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Yeah, not not a single day.

SPEAKER_04 15:37

Um that's that because I wake up like I'm like 4 35 is my like I don't need an alarm. I'm up, and as soon as I'm up, I'm it's go time.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 15:46

Like, and I'm down here either working out or where it's like no one's up in the house and I love it, so I start my day that way. But walk me through like how at such 11 years old, why did that how did that start?

SPEAKER_03 15:57

Well, you know, one, I think even just where we are now and in your discipline as well as there's certain aspects of our day that we have to protect to be able to set ourselves up for success. And I always valued that quiet time when the rest of the world is is is asleep. And I think as a kid, you know, I like to say right now, I look back and say, oh, you know, it was because I had had this massive mission. And but I would say it wasn't really till I really understood who I was as as a man, as a person, that I was given the opportunity to reflect as to what really led me to uh to have that type of discipline. And it really went back to I wanted to be able to control my own destiny. I didn't want to be helpless, and if I had a goal, I wanted to be able to achieve it with myself and by myself.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

And you're 11 years old thinking this. I was like, dude, you are the most intelligent. I wish, I wish you're not even shaving yet. You're having the Gillette conversation with yourself in the way, when I can shave.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Well, I I would say there there is a a story, and in uh retrospect, I I do know what what led me to to that. And so for for me, had the the fortune of um having both my parents serve in the the US Army, U.S. military. And they were married until I was uh five years old. And it was actually my father's second marriage, so he um he uh and his uh high school sweetheart had my older sister and the my sister's mother actually just disappeared when she was you know less than less than one year old. And my father raised her while in pre-med and rotc and really leveraged the opportunity to to join the military to to help support him and he had this child, and and so he was able to instill some of that discipline in me. Um but there's there is a bigger story. So when when they chose to to divorce, my father moved to uh to Georgia and um he's at Fort Gordon, and my mother uh stayed in San Antonio at the time, Fort Sam Houston, and she remarried uh an individual and uh not a great guy, and he was uh physically abusive to her, and I was living there, it was natural at that time where the parents divorced, you stay with the mom, that's what you do. And it was a really hostile household. And it there was times I would witness these things, you know, as a kid, you either leave or you lock yourself in the room, and there was just something in me. I don't know if if it was God saying, do something about this, but obviously I'm not gonna stand up to the to this guy physically, but I tried to, and he he um hit my mother. Okay, and I just I I grabbed a bat actually and was gonna go throw it at him, and he turned and he uh pulled a knife out of his pocket. Oh wow and my mother just looked at me and screamed, stand still. I think she knew he wasn't going to attack me with it. But he turned about five feet away, he pulled the blade out, he threw it, and he intended, I believe, he intentionally missed it, cut my shirt, cut the blinds behind me, and I think I probably never felt more helpless in my life. I mean, think about you're completely defenseless. And so fortunately, uh aside from maybe some uh not being unscathed mentally, I was able to uh you know escape uh physically being unscathed and my mother made the decision. You know, she of course needed to get out of that relationship, but I moved with with my father.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

And I still shaped this up like I had this beautiful childhood. I mean, it was it was actually very, very neat. I was able to my father's a sports fanatic and and he enjoyed supporting me and playing sports and played every sport in the book. And we made the move from Fort Gordon and Georgia to Fort Lewis and in Seattle, and I grew up running and being outside all the time. And Seattle's a great place. Seattle was especially, I mean, especially then.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Yeah, I mean, it's you get those evergreens and that oxygen and up there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

I don't know about the Seahawks, but yeah, that well and I didn't really know much about what football was at the time, but I was young, and yeah, gosh, we'd be able to hop on our bikes and take off and hop on a ferry and island hop and see the wildlife and scrap.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

I mean, we're we were talking about fishing before the show, some like the salmon fishing up there and all that. Because I when I immigrated from Dublin, Ireland, I went to Vancouver, Canada. And but we were right by the Bellingham border there. Um, and we lived in a town called White Rock. Oh, yeah. Um, and then my parents had a little trailer in this place called Black Rountain Ranch. So we were always down, like we snowboarded at Mount Baker. Yeah. Um, and uh, but Seattle is just like sourdough there is unbelievable. Seattle's best coffee is one of my favorite coffees. Yeah, that's right. It's a great city, and like two, like I don't know, how old are you?

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Uh 44.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

44. So you like Kirk Cobain and like that whole time. That's right. That was like and the gorge, right? The gorge is there? That's right. Yeah, it's a great city, man. Seattle's a great city.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

I uh I went back more recently, and and it's it's beautiful. And of course, I remember it differently as a child, and it was an amazing place, but so many great memories. We one of my we talked about fishing, one of my favorite memories being in Seattle was my friends and I went out and hiked up to this river, and the salmon were we're running, I think, to spawn. So they're going upstream, and we're reaching in the river and scraping salmon out with our bare hands. And we'd grab a couple and we did that. It was like, oh, this is so cool. And we grab them and then we string them up and we'd uh we would fillet and take them back and cook them. And we were seven years old doing this. And one day I heard, Hey, hey, and someone starts chasing us, and we were on. On a Native American reservation. And so effectively stealing. And uh so we we we did not repeat that uh anymore, but uh that was a great memory of there you know growing up.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

I love going when the salmon runs happen, uh and it starts going through like the Okanagan up, like or sorry, we'd have been like Shushwap Lake area, uh, and you get the salmon eggs and you throw it out, and you'll get like the brown maple trout because they're coming and trying to eat the eggs, and you can get those big lake trout that are going through there, but the the water just turns, you know. For anybody that hasn't this pictures don't do it justice, but when you just see these giant, like with their soccer, right? With their soccer, yeah, um, and they're just all battered to hell and they're just going up, and the entire it is like the water's red and it's just moving. It's one of the coolest things, yeah, I I've ever seen. Um, I I read that you said reading the room has become like a survival skill that you learned. Yes. What explain that to me?

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Yes. So for for me, the the the idea around that is you want to put yourself in a position to help people in a position of success. And for me, with with this unfortunate experience as a child, where I just said I always want to make sure that I never feel helpless like that again. That was the most helpless I ever felt. I think it really shaped me to have great traits and also some traits that may help me, but may not always be the most endearing. One of them, like just don't put up with crap from anybody. Yeah. For the most part, that puts you in a position where you know you work to keep yourself safe and you know your head's on a swivel. But it can also sometimes make me you know short-fused or um perhaps not the most patient person. And so from that perspective, no, so coupling that with understanding how to read the room, you know, you have to be able to temper or raise your emotion up and down and up and down. And so that that ability to read the room was so important to me because I I loved the opportunity to meet interesting people. I actually I think this is surprising to some people. I'm still a bit more of an introvert, but I really, really thrive around wonderful conversation and learning something. My wife and I have a saying, surround yourself with growth-oriented, growth-minded people and work to give more than you take. And so that that strong desire to read the room was me wanting to be a chameleon, to want to be able to control my destiny, make sure to protect myself so I don't feel helpless, but then really work hard to be able to add value to people.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

Yeah, my dad, um, as I said before, he always said pain from grater, pain from um discipline. What what's your version of of that growing up? Like of of figuring out all right, I need to implement like was it, was it there's the 11 years old when you're running and you're it's you did that for the six, seven years. Um was there the point where you're like, okay, now this discipline that I've I've implemented into my life by you know the grace of God, I and have sort of created my own path and forged. What was the the light switch for you? Like, oh, this is a this is a skill now that I have that I'm gonna I'm gonna use and how am I effectively gonna take this to the next level?

SPEAKER_03 25:17

I think foundationally having one had that opportunity to grow up in Seattle and I grew up a runner and loved it, I I learned how to endure an immense amount of pain as as a child. And uh that was from running?

SPEAKER_04 25:32

From from running. Yeah, running is running's no joke.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

From running and running at a high level, and and in Seattle there, I mean it's about as big as footballs in the south. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

And um, which were you doing cross country or were you doing cross country? Oh, dude. So you were like like in it, like in it.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

Yeah, that's like that's no joke, cross country, because it's through the woods and all through all sorts of you know, you were doing it way before Cam Haynes was. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

That's right, yes. Well, and I I loved it, and I actually carried that with me through through high school as well. So I I did actually cross country and football at at the same time in the same season. So it would be 5 a.m. cross country practice, it would be 3 p.m. football practice, it would be Friday night football games, Saturday morning cross-country made. So just go, go, go. And I I thrived off of that pain that work I think, but where I really thrived was was working to inspire people. And so when you talk about what were those moments where I understood that pain threshold and what that were really really like, what's the ROI from that ridiculous pain threshold? But I have an additional saying where if if you can do anything, you can endure pain and you can work hard, right? I mean, that that's that's the thing with the world. That's the beautiful thing about living in America. One thing we have is the ability to work hard. You could have other limitations, you can have lack of resources, but to focus and to work hard is something that I just want to work to instill in so many people. Yeah. So I would do that by example. That that was really what would inspire me to do the multiple sports at the same time. That's what would inspire me to wake up early and run and train and do those things. And it wasn't about showing up and winning, it was about actually working to inspire people and drag people along.

SPEAKER_04 27:15

Did you was there that because I it was only in my later years where I realized I'm having a conversation with somebody inside, whoever this is that I'm talking to. It's the person that is like, I don't go to the gym today. You don't need to do that. You know, I just sleep in, hit the hit the alarm clock, just take another break, go take a nap. You don't need to do it right now. And I've I've gotten into so many arguments with that uh that voice that is telling me not to push harder. And I I feel like when I'm really locked in, it's when it becomes even more like, why are you working so hard? Like that's like this, like relax, take your foot off the gas. Did you ever have that battle of where you don't need to push as hard, just take a rest day? Do you ever have that that inner monologue going through your head?

SPEAKER_03 28:07

It's unfortunately very contagious. Yeah, right. Quitting and giving up can be very contagious. In fact, try it where you're on a hard run and just stop, and then just watch how much louder that voice is next time and next time. So that's true. Once it knows where where your breaking point is. It knows because you're because what happens is your body immediately gets familiar with pain and correlating that to wanting to stop to alleviate the pain.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

And your your your mind can either quit and the body will then stop, or your mind can convince the body to keep keep going. Like, no, we're not stopping here. And the body will listen to that. That's right. It's an amazing too. And it's it's unfortunate today, too. Like in my household, there's two things you can't say is can't is just like saying the F word. Can't is a swear word. Um, and uh uh quit, quit. And we I had recently started doing with my boys because they started saying try. I'm trying, I'm trying. So it's something my dad did. It was years since, and I it was so crazy. It came back to me like in a thing of something my dad did like he explained this metaphor of trying without explaining it. And I always said it came to me, I was like, Oh, my dad did this uh practice thing. He was like, Because Ranger and Bodie, they're amazing kids. They're like the I'm so lucky to have them as sons. But they they kept saying, I tried, I tried. I was like, okay, can you do it? Can you can you try and pick that thing off the floor? And they picked it off the floor. And I said, No, I want you to try and pick that off the floor. And they did it again. And I was don't no, you're not doing that. Try and do it. And they said, We did it. I go, Well, you do what? I said, You you picked it up, right? You didn't try and pick that up, because if you try and pick it up, it means you didn't do it. And they were like, like, trying means you're not doing it, you're accepting that you're not doing it. And my it like it's like my dad came inside me and was like, was talking like, holy shit, my this is what my dad told me. I I remember when my dad said that to me, and I was like, Oh, that's what trying is trying and there's doing. Yes, and trying becomes that part in the mind where you go, I'm just I tried.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

Yeah, and listen, we've all there's there's variations of that, like of where you've gotten to the top and you don't necessarily wonder it. You did put everything in there, you tried it every and that's difference than I tried, man. I but there's there's a there's a very fine line to also, if you want to be the best, if you want to get there, you have to be able to fight that. And I think with the kids today, it drives me nuts when they would have everybody gets a trophy. I'm like, excuse me. I'm like, no, that that does nothing for them. That's right. It makes me absolutely bananas when people are like, Well, we just don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm like, are you guys ignoring how hard it is in this world that's right? They're gonna be devoured if they're like walk out there with like, you know, my dad would always say, never trust a man with soft hands. Like, if you don't feel calluses on somebody's hand when you're shaking, he's like, do not trust that person. They do not understand hard work. And listen, I'll go get a manicure and a pedicure every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

You know, just because my wife is like a little pamper and nothing but a little spile of cucumbers on the eyes.

SPEAKER_04 31:28

Come on, I'm into them an actor. As we get older, it is so important to stay on top of our blood work. That's why I'm incredibly proud to have Pure RX, one of our sponsors of the show. Go to aj.purerx.co, type in time to shine in the notes, and you will get 50% off your blood work. It's summertime. You want to go camping, you want to go off-road and get your truck, a lift kit. Go to total off-road. TJ and Dan are my guys here in Charleston. They're the best. Huge thank you to them for being sponsors of the show. You got a Paverman Princess, head to Total Off-Road, get your truck lifted like a real man. For you, with what fascinated about with like your work ethic and all the things that you've accomplished. I mean, this is insane. So, your senior year, you're doing the cross country, you're doing the track, you're like, hey, I'm gonna try football. So you hadn't played football before?

SPEAKER_03 32:27

I've never played football, but and I will say, and I don't want to discredit others that have had similar journeys, but football is one sport that with pure talent and brute strength and size, you you can be good at. Oh, yeah. And you actually, some of the best tight ends in NFL history didn't even play college football, but they were great college basketball.

SPEAKER_04 32:49

That's why I was the mascot, and I'm not kidding. Were you? I tried out, I tried out, and my coach was like, I he's like, we don't have a six string. And I was like, I didn't even know what that was. And uh he's like, uh he's like, but Buckley, he's like, uh, you got a lot of heart.

SPEAKER_05 33:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

And he's like, Do you know we don't have a mascot? I'm like, You want me to be the mascot? He's like, I want you to be the mascot.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

The best mascot I've ever had.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

And from from grade eight to grade 12, I was a knight. I was the I was it was like the greatest thing. I remember running through the house and like, dad, and my dad knew me trying out for the team that I was never gonna make this team. He just knew because this the the school that I went to, the football team was great. And I went through and I'm like, Dad, you're not gonna believe it. My dad's like, holy shit, you made the team, and I was like, No, it was like, whatever. He's like, I'm the mascot. They asked me to be the mascot. He was like, What the fuck's a mascot? I love it, man. I love it. It was uh crazy, but so yourself, so how tall were you in high school then?

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Yeah, so I was actually this height. You were, and but I was very good skinny. So I'm I'm almost 6'6, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:52

It's just unfair.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

And well, and it's funny that that's actually probably why I ended up being pretty good at football. So uh we one, we we moved from Seattle to Alabama, right? So just get yeah, well, there we go. So I'm I'm I'm a War Eagle guy. My my wife is real tight, my best friend's real tight as well. So so we get there, and this was a I mean, fish out of water, but I always relied on sports to give me this opportunity to engage with new people and uh and was good at sports, so uh went there, moved to Alabama, cross country, boom, was was all state, basketball was all state, and my best friend in ninth grade was 6'6 and 275 pounds. And today he's 6'8, 330. His name's Wesley Britt. And he was a very good football player, naturally. Yeah, and he said, Look, you gotta come, you you gotta try to play football. And I was like, ah no, like I'm gonna go play basketball or run cross-country in college. And I was actually playing basketball uh for on summer break, and the football coach walked in, really nice guy, and he said, All right, I spoke to the cross-country coach, we figured this out. I was like, I I don't know, I I'm not that interested. He said, Hear me out. You will break the state record for most varsity letters if you do two, if you do both sports at the same time. And I was like, All right, I can get behind that. Yeah. And so that's really how the whole thing shook out. Now I was this height, but I was quite skinny. And then throughout the uh throughout the season, I just put on more and more weight and just kind of come into my own my body. And my best friend was a one of the best players in the country. So he was being aggressively recruited, all the SEC schools, all the Big Ten schools, and they're like, who's this guy?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:41

And we just so happened, a little bit of luck. I mean, we I was tall, gaining weight, getting strong, lots of eyes on Wesley, so then lots of eyes on me. And we had this offense where we had a really good quarterback, and I basically was just a receiver and was this height, and would just, I mean, you're like the Randy Moss of caught a bunch of touchdowns, and it was the sport was just very, very natural to me.

SPEAKER_04 36:02

So did you find with the because with cross country, it's definitely a different type of muscle group, especially with your feet, like so your fast twitch muscles and stuff. Is that something you had to did you notice when you started training? Like, okay, I have to work on different parts to become more explosive? Because is it such more out of the pocket as opposed to the the cross-country, which is a completely different operational? That's right. Um how how we what was that sort of learning curve like?

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Well, I had uh natural mechanics from basketball. So I had to put my body in a good position, I could jump up and get the ball. Um, and I was, I think had some explosiveness from that as well. And so I had just some of those natural mechanics, and we both went on and had great senior years. We were both all Americans in football, and it just kind of kind of fell in place. But to answer your question there, I didn't really develop the true football skills, the explosiveness, put on the real muscle mass and the strength until college.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

And uh just just learned the sport as as I went and really took that that work ethic and brought it to the field as well.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

Did you love the game? Uh or did you fall in love with the game?

SPEAKER_03 37:06

I fell in love with the team camaraderie. Yeah, I fell in love with the challenge, I fell in love with inspiring people, I fell in love with just this ability to learn this new sport and work extremely hard. Yeah, it was never going to be this lifelong goal for me to get. In fact, even I remember being at that that senior camp before decided to sign at Auburn, they're like, raise your hand if you want to go to the NFL. And I was like, haven't really thought about it. Right. I don't really know. I love it. And so it it was more of loving the ability to be a leader, yeah, and be a leader with the things that I discussed that you ever everyone can do, work hard, show up first, be their last, ask questions, be a good teammate, uh for for your coaches, for your players, just be there. And that that leadership style is the same leadership style I have now. So that's what I loved.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

And the byproduct of that was I had the ability to be to be good at a sports, and then sign an NFL contract and play a little bit. And when I got to the NFL though, it was a shift for me because that team camaraderie is really non-existent.

SPEAKER_04 38:16

And you went to the Titans, correct? I did, yeah. Yes. Yeah. So what walk me through like that first day of walking through the locker room.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

It was interesting because I played college football at Auburn. Yeah. And um SEC, amazing facilities. I mean, just like the best of the best. And actually getting to the NFL was the facilities and resources was like a step down. It was like really interesting. It was it was very, very interesting. But I remember walking in and it just felt like a meat market right away. It's like you're there with a hundred guys in the next four weeks, there's gonna be 50 people here, and that's gonna be it. 50 guys are gonna be gone. But the 50 guys that make the team, they're gonna have bounced around and bounced around, and it's just, I mean, it's just gonna be we're gonna we're gonna duke it out, we're gonna fight for this thing. Yeah. And so I developed I I've made some good friends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Did you did you mentally shift there? Like you read the rooms, you're reading the room, you're going back to your what you've learned, your natural instinct. I'm reading the room, you're seeing the play, like if this is what's gonna happen. Do you then come up with sort of your your strategy and your disciplined approach of how you're gonna navigate through these waters?

SPEAKER_03 39:24

That's right, that's right. All the way back to that childhood experience I talked about. I mean, all the way back to we're fighting now. Like the these guys, I mean, we we're not a team yet. Yeah, we're we're every man for themselves. Yeah, we're here to fight, not putting up with correct from anybody, you know, and it and even like the very first practice. I I remember ESPN was there, just happened to be there, um, pick the Titans to watch practice and first practice, first play, fight. Just fought someone, fought a defensive end, a guy named Kyle Vandenbosch. We're friends now. Um and he was, I mean, just a monster. Yeah, but to me because that's that's like the jungle.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

You you get in there, and the rules of the jungle is like everyone's gonna test, like you've got to find out who the alpha is. And that's right, and that's the those are the moments, and that's how what I observed as a mascot.

SPEAKER_05 40:10

I would see these these alpha males off in the distance, and I'd be in my night suit going, some alpha was over there finding out.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

I think you uh I think you you you progressed quite well.

SPEAKER_05 40:24

My balls have dropped.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

That's right. Yeah, yeah. I think uh I think you blossomed quite well.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

I was a late room bloomer. I I had my first like beat piece of peace fudge on like my 23rd birthday. It was great. Now I can grow a beard, it's fantastic. But no, it is it's amazing to see like in those situations, it so becomes a primal sort of thing. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, where you can get a guy like yourself can get into somebody's head is they know you're gonna outwork them. You they know that you've been in there early, you're not going out, you're training, you're there last. It's sort of that Kobe Bryant thing is like, you know, that's right. People could go to the thing, but they knew when it came to game time because the amount of work that you've done, and and a lot of people fight, they go to the the the violence switch because it's insecurity and they want to they don't know how to deal with it because they you've already beat them mentally on the field. That's right. Did you feel that when you that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

So for for me, that first play was not, it wasn't like I walked to the practice like I'm gonna fight. It's not like I'm no walking into prison, right? But it but it was like I'm gonna I'm going to make sure that I'm if anything happens here, I'm putting up with with no crap from anybody. I'm gonna be tough. I'm gonna and it just so happened, some weird thing happened with play, kind of pushed me afterwards, so I just turned around and fought him. And what what I loved about that was it did set a tone, but it was even more than that. It was, like you said, this the cross-country background, that really that hard work ethic. One thing that everyone can say about me in sports was no matter what, that they won't be able to at work, but I'm always gonna be the last man standing at the end as well. And that's actually what helped me with with the rowing career and those things as well was just that that desire to to fight and to work hard. But I was very, very fortunate to have that strong cardiovascular background. Yeah, because it's the deep waters.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

Yeah, going in the deep waters. Like I'm a big fan of martial arts and UFC and all that sort of stuff. And it really is when it goes to the like regular bouts are three rounds, and then the title fight is five rounds. Even with amateur boxing at your six, and then it go to two, but the difference of three to five and going in those deep waters for for a lot of guys that have all this hype behind them, and you'll hear Joe Rogan's like, if they're gonna go into deep waters, and some of the champs are like, come on, you wanna I'm gonna bring you out here, and we're gonna find out what what kind of man you are. And because of that cross-country in the early battles of the mental game, it's like so many people break. And I again I go back to the kids. It's like, if we don't bring our kids into deep waters early, uh, with love and and and intention in our heart to to show them what it is, when they go into the world, which is deep waters, they're done.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

They're just gonna get they they they have to understand. I I love the the read the room analogy, they have to be able to see where the deep water is and what lights would you have to turn on when you go there so you don't panic. Because anytime you allow panic and not be able to critical think in those moments in life, whether it's in a sport or a real life situation, that's where that split second decision of going right or going left is is so critical in anything.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

That's right. Well, if you think about one the the point that quitting is contagious. And if quitting is contagious, it's going to limit your ability to do whatever it is you want to do at the very highest level to the best of. Your ability and it it just so happens that you realize that early on, and you have the chance to go say play a sport at the highest level. Almost every single sport at the highest level is boils down to inches or milliseconds. It could be for me, it was rowing football. I think about track athletes, and there's that Jerry Seinfeld joke where it's like, right? It's like you know, um go, you know, world champion and no one knows him, right? And it's you know, one inch apart.

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

And but it that is not a matter of luck. Even I was just speaking about Michael Phelps. Um, and he when he won one of his gold medals, I mean, they they had to to stop the the Olympics for 20 minutes to review and review because it was so close. Yeah, but when you ask him, he was training for that. He he knew that very last reach, and it's just all those little tiny things that led him to win those gold medals. Same thing with any sport at the highest level, you have to develop the ability to go the distance, and the game is always win or loss towards the very end. You watch NFL games, it's usually a three-point spread, sometimes a seven-point spread. And just the little things that lead to winning and losing. You take basketball, you you watch these games and they boil down to two to three points, and all the mistakes that lead up to certain things that determine the end of that game. I like to look back at that and say, those were all people who knew that quitting was contagious. Yeah. And they made sure to never have that feeling because they've set themselves to work to set yourself up for that ultimate level of success.

SPEAKER_04 45:41

And I think it's important too with with kids doing individual sports but on your own, it's getting out of the team thing as well. I think is is critical because it it's then it's it becomes that you you understand that voice inside your head. The mental thing when you feel off, how do you reprogram? If you had a first couple first bad, you know, if you're tennis or or what it box, whatever, just being able to recalibrate um and do that. My kids do jujitsu and they had their one of their first competitions, and I thought it was so fascinating. Um you know, they got this amazing coach, and when they were practicing, they watch all the kids yelling and stuff, and then he's basically teaching the kids to find in the craziness where his voice is in the crowd, find it and listen to what he's saying to the moves. And you know, my kids are eight years old, but I was like, wow, this is such a life skill to calm them down and be able to find their coach's voice and not look at him, but just hear what he's saying and then implement the game plan, which jujitsu is like a chess match. And it was such a cool feeling. I was like, this is gonna be so great for them later on in life because it's it's it can like you know, anybody jumps on you're wrestling, it's it's exhausting, it's terrifying, but to in there and then to find, be able to, you know, sort of calm the whirlwinds of your mind, so to speak, and find that peace in the storm and be like, all right, okay, there's the voice. That's what I got to listen to. I think it's such a light scale. And you had some trials and tribulations in your your ACL that's right. You had three three ACL Ts.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Three ACLs. Yeah, that's right. But back to whether it's the message of resilience or at working or wanting to do something special to inspire people. For for me, those were the the the first one, I had no idea what happened. Yeah, they're like, oh man, that sucks. You tore your ACL. And then it was like three weeks before the Alabama game, I was like, Will I be back? And they're like, dude, like tore your ACL. It's like and I mean my father was an orthopedic surgeon, but I still didn't really know what that meant. And of course, had the surgery and worked really hard to recover. And then I had a pretty good, this is in college, uh, say a relatively exceptional sophomore season. And so went into my uh junior my junior year as a preseason All-American. And to me, it was like, oh wow, like I've I've kind of I'm I'm pretty good at this sport, and caught three passes in the first core of the first game, tore my SEL again. And that time I knew it. And it was non-contact, it was almost exactly the same how I tore it the first time. Was it the same one? Same knee. Wow. Same knee. And it was really interesting because I had this I have this saying where um you have 24 hours to feel bad for yourself or to celebrate, and after that you move on. 100%. Same way in business, sports, our rule in our house. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, it's it's great, high-five doing all that, but you gotta make progress. Yeah, and so for me, I remember knowing even before I got the MRI, I was like, I tore this thing and I was sitting there with with my father, and I said, I don't know. I mean, is this should I really try to come back or should I just hang it up? And I I graduated college early and I was like, you know, working on my master's, and I was like, maybe I just you know go and find something else. And I mean, he's always been supportive of me. He just said, just take a little bit of time to think about it. There's no rush, like you got to get surgery and work to rehab, anyways. And so that was the first game of the year. And I did, you know, obeyed my rule 24 hours, you know, confirmed the ACL was torn. And I I sat down with myself and I said, you know what, I can actually turn this into something pretty good. There's some silver lining here. So typical ACL takes six months to repair. And I did just a little bit of math, and there was effectively three months in the football season. And I remember going in and saying, Can I hurry up and schedule surgery? And they're like, Oh, it's no rush. Like, you know, you can rehab through the spring. I said, No, I want to play in the last game of the year. And of course, they said, Well, you know, you you you can't do that. And I said, Well, can I have surgery this week? And then they said yes. Okay, then let me take care of the rest after that.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

And so I did. So I had that surgery, and and your second knee surgery, you can use what they call like a cadaver. Yeah, yeah. And so the uh getting some of your flexion extension back is a little bit faster. You still have to wait for it to heal and all that. But I I worked my butt off and got strong and put a brace on it, and I played.

SPEAKER_05 49:59

And there's everybody like, holy fuck, dude. Like, holy shit. Holy shit. This guy's out of his mind.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

That was often said, was like, dude, you're just crazy no matter what. So, but it was like, what can I do? And they're like, Listen, you we know for sure you'll get your strength and your speed back, but I don't know that it's gonna physically heal in there. And I just remember being like, I think this is gonna be inspiring to people, yeah. And actually, like a little side note, Jerry Rice did something similar. Yeah, and so I I remember looking back and be like, okay, this is pretty cool. Yeah, so yeah, so I did that, and so to me it was just like a setback happens and it's like, what are you gonna do with it? And what is that silver lining? So I had that opportunity to do that, and then of course went on and had a good senior year and was able to play a few years there afterwards.

SPEAKER_04 50:46

That's crazy. And then amongst all your other accolades, at 35, you discover is it 35 you discover rowing? Discover the sport of rowing, yes. Yeah, it's so like most people like that that have go like have the run that you want, because you do you make the Olympics in the US the the US rowing team, that's right. So like most people that made the team, they've been rowing their entire life. That's right. But you're like, I'm gonna so walk me through that how you discover rowing.

SPEAKER_03 51:13

Well, I I love uh some correlations that I'll have the chance to draw here. Yeah, and so in the I stumbled on the sport of rowing because after football, I straight I went straight back into endurance sports. And so I started doing triathlons, traveling the world, competing, and that's fun. That's like a bit of like weekend warrior stuff. And I and I I won some triathlons and all that, and that that was cool. Um, relatively low stakes, but you can go work your butt off and you know, and yeah, end up being pretty good at. Well, I had a friend that introduced me to the the sport, if you will, of CrossFit. And this was in 20 uh 13 and was just because of just this brute strength and whatnot, I was good at CrossFit and qualifying for the CrossFit games a couple years in a row and all that. And I mean, I'm almost.

SPEAKER_04 52:01

And that's when it was like that was like the Rich Fawning days, right? That's right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:04

So it's like he was like the yeah, you ri Rich was the man, and then um he lives in Nashville, doesn't he? He does, yeah. Uh Cookville. That's right. Yeah, Cookville. Yeah, I think Cookville CrossFit or something. And yeah, Rich was Rich was the man. And I mean, Rich I think is 5'8 and built like a brick house baseball guy in college. And like I'm my body's quite different, so um I was able to achieve some some good stuff in CrossFit, but being this tall, I was CrossFit Games one year, and this gentleman walked up to me after one of the competitions where we were on those rowing machines.

SPEAKER_04 52:42

Oh, the rowing, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:42

The what they call the ergometer, the the C2 machine, yeah. And um half marathon row, and I mean I just beat everyone by like seven minutes, but it it was about as unfair as it would be me going up against Rich Front and handstand push-ups. Like he's gonna double, you know, or get it done in half my time. And this guy's like, I'd like to sponsor you. There's this indoor rowing championship up in Boston, and basically you just rode 2,000 meters against like 400 people from all around the world, and I was in good shape and strong from CrossFit. I was like, all right, I'll give it a shot. And uh they flew me up there, and I knew nothing about the sport of rowing except for I was pretty good on this machine. And this was um Olympic champions and um, you know, people from all over the world, and I ended up winning a bronze medal in that indoor race, and I lost to the German national champion and the Cuban national champion, and I beat all the guys on the U.S. rowing team. And so the uh the coach of the US rowing team called me afterwards and was like, Do you want to learn this sport? Who are you?

SPEAKER_04 53:48

And I was so you completely cleaned the floor with everybody there?

SPEAKER_03 53:52

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

That's right. It's I mean it's an indoor, it's just a like like but how I know, but like I couldn't do that. Yeah, and I'm a bit of a savage. Um but the the I mean, so paint the pink, so there's that takes what 2,000.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

It's uh yeah, it's uh the standard rowing race is 2,000 meters.

SPEAKER_04 54:14

So that would take a normal person seven minutes of just hard output. That's right. And the burn is real and stuff like that. So it was that just but did it did it even bother you or no?

SPEAKER_03 54:25

So um I you know the stuff we talked about here, like I I know what pain is, yeah. Um can manage pain exceptionally well, was strong from football, still that great cardiovascular fitness. So this is just a walk in the parts. I mean, it was it was a it's a pain machine. Yeah, and I love what I love how we're connecting the dots here. So rowing is one of those sports where the only thing that matters is your ability to know how to row and then that last 250 meters. And it it is all about guts and pain. Yeah, and even when I was running in the trials, finished third in the trials, and and we lost first place by the length of a bow ball. Wow, and that's that's exactly what it's like in the Olympics as well. And so I was able to go there and again finish third, but didn't really know much about the sport, but I knew how to fight and I knew what pain felt like. I knew I wanted to compete and I knew I wanted the chance to inspire people. So they flew me out to California and they're like, let's teach you how to row. And didn't go well.

SPEAKER_04 55:25

Um days of thunder, but in rowing. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 55:29

Robert Duvall Gary, he's like, listen, kid.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

There's like and I'm sure if my rowing buddies listen to this, I don't know if they'll always appreciate this, but I I did say this as well. It's like, these guys, they're they're good rowers and they've got the skill, they've got the endurance, they but I know for sure that none of them grew up knowing how to really fight. Yeah. And that was it for me. I was like, all right, that's it. That that's how I'm gonna do this. And so they actually sent me up to Seattle and I rode with the college team there for about two weeks and really learned.

SPEAKER_04 56:02

Was there was there just within form and the little things that they would tweak where you're like, oh wow, like that you'd see an exponential where you could play back that last race that you lost by that's right. You know, that like if you knew these certain techniques, it wouldn't, you would have that would have been the huge, huge, huge, huge.

SPEAKER_03 56:20

That was the so there was a time where I was actually training and rowing over a hundred thousand meters a day. Wow. I had to get stroke after stroke after stroke, and that and it's just you, right?

SPEAKER_04 56:29

It's not like a team.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

It at the beginning it was just me. Yeah, they're teaching me the technique, I'm in the single, and then then they get you in with a partner, and then you start to race with some people. And every single day I just got incrementally better. But the but day one at the training center was just like day one in football. It was, I mean, it would it was shit talking at the very start because I knew that when it boiled down to those last 250 meters, if if we're neck and neck, I knew they would have no chance and I'd break them down for sure.

SPEAKER_04 56:58

Do you in rowing, because I know when I've watched it on TV, I actually it's one of the Olympic sports I just love because they've got the high and wide and the racing. But do you the markers going by, do you know when that you're at that 250 thing? Are you saving something in the tank that you're like, okay, now I'm now I hit the nitro and I'm like that's right.

SPEAKER_03 57:18

So it's a it's a real race strategy. Yeah, and if you watch the race, for those that are listening, everyone to watch a rowing race, there's something called strokes per minute. And those strokes per minute, that that's that's your race cadence. You'll see those strokes per minute go up and down, that's intentional. Got it. And so for us over the course of a 2,000 meter race, the the typical strategy is you come out really, really hard and you have to do short, quick strokes. Same thing on the rowing machine. Yeah, short, quick strokes, but get that chain going. Then it gets moving, gets moving, and then usually what you do is you settle in and you settle in for that first 250, and you've got just a good cadence. And for us, it was somewhere between 32 and 36 strokes per minute. You settle in, and then what you would do is you make moves, and those moves are intended to break people down mentally. And so the moves would be like 10 power strokes, and then you might kick up to 40, 42 strokes per minute. And the idea is yeah, just gain a you know, either catch up or or create some separation. And when you do that, then you still have to settle back in because you you you can't just go full gas the whole time. So you settle in and then you you do these different power pieces, and then you you do what you call like make moves, and you might make those moves to the the intention is either catch up or get far enough ahead because you might know that there's a team that has a great finish or whatnot. Yeah. But the idea is to put yourself in a position where in those last 250 meters, that's where it all happens, that's where it's all guts, it is full go. I mean, it is all you have to try to win that race. Yeah. And so for for us, there there was a there's always a bit of a strategy. It's different when you're in when you're in a single and you run by yourself as well. And um, that's those drugs per minute are typically a little bit more, but the it truly is a mental game. And so for me, day one at that center was very similar to football, except for I didn't physically fight anybody. But I do but but I I mean I was definitely waiting for it. That's right. We just just held them under just for a little bit of time. A little strange, but I don't know where we went. But we um but it it was always uh I was a bit older as well, so they kind of looked at me and were like, all right, this is this is where like who is this guy? Yeah, but they knew I would they knew I would find it.

SPEAKER_04 59:42

Like his name is Jason Bourne.

SPEAKER_03 59:45

Yeah, uh a man of mystery there. So I enjoyed that part. Now I just enjoyed that ability to compete. Now, this was short-lived. This was this was two years for me. And it was because I was like, okay, I've got this great opportunity to go and represent the country and to inspire people. There was the sport of US men's rowing was a little bit weird at the time. And so this was a story to them. Yeah, there was there's like this article with with me and LeBron James where LeBron James was like trying trying to row and stuff, and and it got them a little bit of you know um attention on the US team. So people like that. And so, because of that, I was able to going back to read the room, I was able to understand, okay, who are the guys here who aren't going to be threatened by me? Like they're like, who are the four best rowers in America who will just teach me this sport who aren't threatened, who are like, man, I love this story. I'd love for you to earn a spot on our boat. And so those four guys were like, let's do this. And they'd show up before practice, they'd show up after practice, they'd watch me during practice, they'd give me tips, they took me under their wing essentially. These guys are you know 12 years younger than me, but they were exceptional Olympic level rowers, and was able to develop that relationship with them where they they wanted me to win. And so for the way that you make the US team is you actually compete in pairs, and it's essentially like time trials and you race head to head. So I was able to get one of those four guys as a partner of mine uh to to want to be in the boat, and we just rode well together and and we we ended up winning some races. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:21

Um, you've all that with the Faith Family Um Fitness Mission that you have, uh Family Faith, Fitness and was there another one? Mission. Yeah, family, fitness and mission. Um out of those four, picture them as a you know, legs on a table. If is there one of the one of the four that you've struggled with the most out of those four? That's been the hardest. Like for me, that's right, my faith, I it's been a journey back, and in that journey back, I've it's been a struggle in the sense of understanding what my mission is or what my understanding is. It's been a lot of self-reflecting and and self-forgiveness and all sorts of things. That's been one of my sort of things.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:09

I love that you referenced legs of the stool. Yeah. And I I've I've gone back and forth on that analogy or the the analogy of foundational value first. And the way I've typically described this is if you have your four core values and those are the four legs of the stool, one may get knocked out and you're wobbly, two gets knocked out and you go crash into the floor. And and I I do think that feeling is is real.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

And you can lean into your other values if if one feels a bit wobbly. But but I I I do live my life within those four values. But foundationally, to me, faith is is is paramount. Foundation. Faith for most people, and appreciate you sharing that for you, it's been a journey. It's been a journey for for me as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:54

Like it's the best thing that's ever happened to me, but it's made me really realize how much work I need to do within myself. But in a sense of how much I've held on to, how much anger it was inside me, how much, and it's like, why? Why am I, which then affects me being present and affects these other things, and then when I could slow myself down and just spend time with God and reflect and be grateful, it really like this these inner things that I didn't know that were still inside me, that I'd sort of forgotten about or deliberately buried inside of me. I when I allowed to myself to forgive myself and forgive whoever else and just move on, I saw so much more growth. And it's still a struggle, it's still things that I'm trying to chart out, but the faith is finding God again is is really giving me as finding seeing as as flawed as I am, it's giving me more strength than I've ever had, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:57

That's right. And I I share that same feeling. And I think about faith as as truly foundational, it just impacts everything else. You think about faith, and then if that layer above that is family, if you have a faith-based household, right? Uh inevitably you will have challenges in in marriage, you'll have challenges with your family. But if you have that foundation of faith, you I I do believe that that you know it can and will be okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Yeah. And that's the thing. It it can and it will be okay. And it's trusting in God that it's gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:32

And that uh sometimes your challenges are there to to or God's is putting you through something so that when you get to the top of the mountain or wherever you're going, it's it's you're ready for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:44

I think that is one way to define what becoming a man feels like when it it's what what they say in the Bible that it's um you know uh easier for a camel to walk with the eye of a needle than a rich man to make it into heaven.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

And I understand that. I think that there's this time where you uh achieve something that you would consider success as as a human, it doesn't be financial, it could be uh an achievement that you worked really hard for. And when your faith stays firmly intact, I think you found yourself. Because oftentimes you know what happens that people teeter back and forth with what they pray for when they ask for things, when things are not going well. But it's what is your relationship like with God when your life is going well?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:29

That's true. Yeah, it really is. It's it and that's that's uh it's that's a heavy one. It hits you in there because it's you go through the fire in a sense, and then you can tend to like pick the foot off the gas. The discipline of but like I think being disciplined is is is an art in itself with your relationship with God. Being disciplined to put the practice in and and having that putting God first. It is really you have as discipline is. You are in everything else, and that's sort of what I talked about before, like spirit, mind, body. That's right. You know, you you've even said something too where it was where you the body is a gift from God. That's right. And your stewards. That's right. Um, can you can you explain that? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:15

Yeah, so I I use the word fitness because it it fits well within the you know the family fit fitness. It sounds nice, but what I what I really mean by that is honoring the body that God gave you.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:26

100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

And that goes way beyond trying to achieve physical performance to be good at a sport. It means that God gave us this gift, and the gift that He gave us is this gift of health and this constant pursuit of excellence to honor the body that God gave you. And I I believe it to be a sin if you don't honor the body that God gave you. I and I realize that there are things that happen in life where you may lose your desire to drive towards physical fitness. And I think that pursuit of physical fitness is a similar pursuit as your pursuit of faith. It's you know, how do you honor what God gave you? So when I think about longevity in the world that I'm in, yeah, I don't think about living forever. I know that there's this whole world out there of certain people that are that are trying to figure out what immortality actually looks like, and a lot that we can unpack there. Uh but in the pursuit of working to inspire people and how people meet unmet needs, that's what I think real longevity is is honoring the bio that God gave you, understanding the resources, pursuing excellence, and figuring out the best way to serve as God purp to serve God's purpose by achieving a level of um uh physical fitness and uh a level of um high performance that allows you to serve the purpose that that God has us on earth to serve.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:51

You said that um prayer and a coal plunge is that some that's part of your daily routine, your morning routine. Walk me through that.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:01

It's as simple as I enjoy habit stacking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:06

Are you praying? Sometimes I'll be in in the care when the cold plunge is freezing like, oh God, this is so cold, oh God, this is so cold. Is that is that is that considered the prayer, or do you pray prior to please God don't make it too painful?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:17

Well, I I I I have a routine and you're you're an early riser as well, and we discussed that I'm the same way. So I'm still up before five at every morning. And uh my morning routine is I I I do enjoy a cup of coffee, it's just nice. And so I put that on, and then I actually sit down while that's um while that's brewing and I I journal and then I pull out my my planner and I do my my three goals for the day, and then I track where my annual goals are. That takes 30 to 60 seconds. And then I read the Bible, and I have a goal every year to read the Bible from from start to finish. Wow. And so I do that in addition to the Bible study that I do with with my daughter and with my wife as well. And I read it start to finish. I think it's every year? Every year.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:03

Have you done the so I have yet to finish the Bible because it gets it's it's a lot to unpack and it gets very confusing. I have dyslexia. It's but I got that app I've talked about before where it walks you through because it how the Bible can reference different things, and I'm like, you know, and then when I found that there was all these other Bibles, I was like, oh my gosh, yes, you know, um, one of my buddies Hain, who is the our team leader on the hike, he's he put he's the best because he'll uh I'll just be like, okay, where are we in this story? Because then we're talking because it'll just jump. And for me, I like everything to kind of track so I can track it, but the Bible kind of jumps over the place. So it's taken me a beat, but I love those the the Bible app and the other ones that will sort of in shorts little snippets. And then there's the other one. Have you seen the comic book one?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

I love the comic book.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:51

It's the coolest thing ever. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

It's the greatest thing ever.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:54

I was like, I heard you talk about it on the show before. I was like, this is the best. Like when I found that, it was at Target. Yeah, I was like, are you a kid? And the art is great. You know, my kids love it. So but uh, but yeah, it it it is it is having prayer and attention and thing in the morning, and your your journaling is it really does you gotta take the time before the world wakes up. And you need to dig before you go on your phone and and and start looking at the thing, because you know, I'm a big believer, and I I struggle with this, but I I really try to implement that first 30 minutes of waking up where there's you're not touching anything. You go like go outside, get your feet in the grass, grounding, see the sunrise if you can, do your breath work, put really do gratitude, like write it down and then say it out loud. Well, I've I've mentioned him on me before my best friend's already backstorm, really changed my life when I was in a dark place. And he's like, just start doing this. And even today, I'll struggle with it. I've been going through some personal things, and I've my day is so much better. And when I when I follow these rules that I've put, and then I'll be a hypocrite in a sense because it I'll be so stressed out about whatever's going on that I'm like, fuck that, I can't do that right now. And my day gets worse, and I'll reflect the other night. I'm like, dude, you just gotta do what you're keep telling, like, follow that. And it's I feel like I was just talking about this the other day. I feel like the more success or the more momentum in a sense you get in a direction that you that you're finally like, oh, I feel like I'm breaking, I'm I'm hitting my stride for the first time in my life. It's like the devil or whatever you want to call it puts more sirens out there for or more things, more harder challenges that you're constantly like, what is going on? Like, why am I going through this? And then instead of making it more like, well, me, it's like, no, okay, how do we let's figure this out? That's right. What's the game plan here? How do we objectively get through this? And then that just goes back to the basic rules that my dad taught me of being disciplined.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:06

That's right. Yeah, what so I think so much awesome things to to unpack there. And and one of those is it goes back to what we talked about where when you start to achieve success, you know, how do you hold your faith firmly? And that whole definition of where I believe you, yeah, you realize you become a man is when you can do both of those at the same time. But as you say, you catch your stride, yeah, and then the the devil starts tapping you on the shoulder.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:32

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:32

And it's like, okay, I've got this, I've got this. And I I do think that there's a level of of um uh success where you think, okay, I've got this figured out, and I sometimes know better. And God has a pretty funny way of keeping you in check there. And you're humbled real quick. That's right. And so you think about things like your morning routine, you have to you have to honor those things. And when I think about my values, that you know, the the one on top of faith is is family. And for me, I've got uh a wonderful wife who's extremely supportive of my desires to be just mentally on point all the time. And I travel a lot for work and you talk about the phone thing. She um has said, hey, when you get to the hotel, just tell me what room you're in, so you can lock your phone up and don't because you know I'm away and babies are there, like shoot. And I'm I never, ever, ever sleep well when I'm away. And but to have that uh that wonderful partner and having that value of family, and she's understands that I've got the body.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:34

I got the yeah, I got the best wife too. I'm very, very lucky to have my uh uh someone that understands that I'm you know, I've got ADM all over the place, but sees my process and how what works and allows me to do it. But again, brings the best out of me when I'm struggling. She's always the one that's like, you gotta talk about this stuff. You can't keep this stuff inside you. And I will be so stubborn, I'm like, I got it, I'm good. Because in a sense, I don't want to weigh anybody down with my bullshit. That's right. So I'm like, I no one needs to know what's going on. But the less, the more when I listen to that, uh I got this, the worse it gets as opposed to vocalizing it and then having a partner in crime that's like, okay, we're good, we'll get through this. That's right, whatever that is. But it's it's that male ego that male, I I I got it's not it's not the ego in a negative way, it's the like, I just don't want people to worry or think that we're not gonna be okay. That's right. I want to protect that's right that, but sometimes not letting people in makes it worse.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:33

That's right. Yeah, I I completely agree with that. And I think that as a man that we there are struggles from that perspective. We we have this inherent desire to be protectors, and some of that comes from how we're born or how we're raised. And you know, we spoke about some of how I became who I am. So I do have a desire, and but I do find that it's it certainly is better when when we share and express those things to the person that one of the people that loves you the most, and for us it's our wives. When you go back and you talk about those morning routines, part of what was important to me, and we talk about the cold plunge and those things, and but I've always had this just strong, strong desire to always finish what I start. And it always, no matter what. And so part of the that morning routine for me in terms of reading the Bible, and and I and I I do enjoy the apps that say check out this lesson, this lesson, and I do realize that I probably I do actually learn more about the Bible when when I follow along that way. But there's just this strange thing where it's like I've got to turn the page and it's gotta go from start to finish, and I'll be happy to do both, but yeah, want that have that that discipline. And so it could be a routine, look, it could be wake up and meditate, it could be, you know, you know, have have your feet touch the grass, it could be get out in the sunlight, it could be journal. Yeah, um, and for me, it is some of those things, but reading that Bible, those four chapters, it's so I think the math is 3.7 chapters per day gets you through it in 365 days. Yeah, and that when when I do that, very similar to how when you follow your routines, my day is completely better. I feel focused, I feel grounded, I know that uh temper can be managed well. Things irritate me.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

I think I'm better at work and I show up better for my family.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:30

Three pillars of discipline spirit, mind, body, in that order. That right there is the foundation of a company I started called Born of Discipline. It's incredibly important to me, this company incorporates my faith, the lessons I learned from my father on discipline, pain from regret, or pain from discipline is something my dad always said to me. And I've incorporated that into my life, and I want to share it with you. Go check it out at bornofdiscipline.com. This incredible journey that you've been on, um, all the lessons that you've learned through your trials and tribulations and your uh un this desire that you have to create a sense of giving back and helping people and and again reading the room again. Where where are the weak spots? How can I what how can I use the talents that I have and the brain and the body that God has given me to really be selfless again and and reach out? You've started this company that I I I would love to to dig on, dig in on.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:36

Well, thank you. And and first, thank you for how we led up to this. I we've chat about our values and for me this faith and family and then fitness and and mission sets at the top, but I don't believe that this mission that I'm on is achievable unless I have those other percent well attacked and I can show up every day, and my relationship with God is great, relationship with my family is great. So that gives me the inspiration. So no matter what, I've got those three legs because inevitably, as an entrepreneur, it can be hard, it can be lonely. It's lonely. It you can feel misunderstood, you can feel frustrated because sometimes you just people just don't get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:13

Most people, when you tell them your idea, like I wouldn't do that. That's right. Like, they're like, that's a lot, that's ooh.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:18

Yeah, yeah. They're like, I in my mission, most people say I can get behind that, but that's a big one. So that's like that. They're like, that's pretty, I don't know about that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:26

Check in it a couple years to see if you're still here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:28

That's right. So a lot of what we've talked about really led me to this journey. So for me, I have this mission in healthcare to help people meet unmet needs through innovative healthcare solutions. And in the the spirit of longevity, which we've talked about, it really have had this merger of these two worlds, this this desire to honor the body that God gave me. And in that mission, in that journey, I have learned so much about how to optimize myself. And I have learned that the answers do not typically exist in traditional healthcare. And then that coupled with this desire to help people meet unmet needs to these innovative healthcare solutions, I've had this career in healthcare that really is bringing me to this point where these two worlds are colliding. I also think a lot of life is about timing. And we have an opportunity right now where people are talking about these things. People are saying, I'm frustrated with traditional health care, the chronic disease epidemic is higher than it has ever, ever been.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

In this country, especially which is which always blows me away because you know, being an immigrant here, and I'm so grateful to live in this country has given me so much opportunity. But when you go to other countries in Europe, they are not this sick. And you're like, How is this even possible? And then just with RFK and like when when he started talking about, you know, the your testosterone levels and all the stuff that was gone, and I looked into that. And then what back in the 50s, what you know, the physical uh um for physical education, what their standards were to where they've just like, well, if you can do one push-up that will we'll that's good. It's like we've just we're on a like a nosedive, and for a country that's this good and this amazing, that's right. How have we let this, how are our people so sick?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:17

I think there's three things that Secretary Kennedy is working on that will just put a huge dent in this. So understanding what food you're putting into your body and what real food is is so important. And so by him changing that food pyramid, then inherently that will change the food that goes into our school systems and goes into our prisons as well. Where those are, I mean, both of those institutions are just littered with terrible food, and that that leads to continued. Even in the hospital, the food is terrible that comes around. You have to say we we have a we have a five-month-old baby. My wife was just talking about this. She just said, I mean, this is absolutely crazy what what they're trying to feed us here. Yeah. So the food system piece being one and knowing that you can put learning how to put good food into your body is is is so important. The the next one is in removing the stuff that just doesn't belong in our foods that isn't over in Europe, right? Yeah, the dyes and those things.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:13

And even our soil. Our soil is so like getting the prop, like get like the the what is it, like the foric, foamic foric acid or something, like the stuff that comes in that you get from healthy soil, those different types of nutrients that we're missing in our soil, which is so when you get when you start peeling back, you're like, because again, you don't know what you don't know. But when you for me, when I started like hearing more about this, I started, I'm like, hold on a second here. So even though like like you can grow vegetables here and and take your house and and and and take care of things, right, because you're giving it the proper nutrient, but when they're doing it for the you know, in the masses out there, this is with the pesticides, all the other things you know that go into that, into the ground, it that soil is has no nutrients. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:57

So greed and American consumerism has led us to have these misaligned interests of economics and health, and there's a massive wealth and health divide here. And it's very unfortunate actually because there's so much similarity to wealth and health right now, and it shouldn't be that way.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:17

Just and health is wealth. That's right. Health is 100% you could because you can have these entrepreneurs, they um even you know, for with in our culture, we we're sitting behind a desk learning about the world, then we go to a nine to five, we're learning about this, then we're slaving, and then by the time we have the money to spend it, we're fat, out of shape, and sick, and you don't get to to to live it. It's so it's such a like you know, like a cattle call. You're just in this thing, and we become the phones and the zombies, and we're just kind of like existing without any purpose or any sort of like you know, just accepting the fact that I'm out of shape and that's okay. That's right. Um, and and no one wants to hear the hard truth, like you're out of shape, dude. This isn't good. And for me, you know, with when I met when I met my kids, that's when I felt like for the first time I knew that I had a ticking clock of like uh death. I was like, I'm gonna die one day, and I don't ever want to die as long as I can to be around my kids. Like that's all I want to, I want to see them succeed. Um and like there's a there's a book that I read years ago, The Blue Zones.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:28

And the the blue zones, like, and I when I was over in Italy, is when I got introduced to for the first time, it's unbelievable. Like the Mediterranean diet, olive oil, and just the like the resveratrol in the wines and stuff, yep, all those different things. It's fascinating how like in these guys, people are like a hundred years old and they're like fine. Like they're cognitively there. Yep, they have the lowest cancer, the lowest diabetes, the lowest sort of and that's just from eating and it the food's delicious. Everybody thinks like this, the food that to be healthy, it's it's you have to eat garbage food. The food there is unbelievable. You're eating the bread, you're eating the tomatoes, the tomatoes taste sweet, like everything tastes good.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:07

And and the and the they're they're nutrient-rich as well. The blue zones are so fascinating as well, because there's it, there's you know, all these blue zones around the world, and they have some commonality, but actually quite a few differences. So, of course, there's healthy, clean foods. That those are very important. The the community that exists there is is so important, and people really forget that here in America as well. Is that that sense of community is so key. The other one is they have a level of physical movement that's inherent in their day. So you're talking about Italy and Sardinia, they Sardinia. Yeah, the the market is on the top of the hill. So they're walking up the hill. They gotta walk up the hill.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

The old guys with the bags every day go to the market, they get what they need for the day.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:52

Farmers carry and they're walking up and down the hill.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:53

Grip strength is like one of the biggest things. You know, it's like when I started researching like your leg, keeping your leg strong and your grip strength is like doing being able to hang for like a minute to two minutes. Like you should you as a man, you should be able to do that. That's right. Um but it's also too like we become so sedentary here. People are not moving, and you go over there and you see these people constantly moving, being around people, laughter, communication, the phones and everything just make everybody so isolated. And I really believe when you become that, is that the right word sedentary? Like that's right, yeah. And still not moving, that's right. Sedentary. Um, when when you it's such and it's so built into the our system right now of like lay on the couch. And look, I love a good couch today, don't get me wrong. But when that becomes things, the video games and stuff, for hours and hours and hours, it especially for older people and losing that muscle density and and being able to be flexible. The dense having that dense muscle mass is how important is to have that density going into your later youth?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:57

Extremely important. In fact, it it's the number one indicator of of death is losing your losing your balance. And when you lose your balance, you start to lose your bone density. There's so much that leads to that. So actually, in our company, as you're asking earlier, we create this program called the longevity quotient. And our goal was to create the most accessible, affordable solution to be able to understand where your health is today, create a scoreboard for your health, and then allow people as they start to receive treatment, get tracked over time so they can see the effectiveness, they can start to see why they feel better.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:28

So, are you are you doing like inflammatory markers and like how do you what is your program? Like I said, you do a blood panel. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:36

Yeah, so the reason I actually led to that was you were talking about grip strength. Yeah. So that's actually one of one of our tests. No way.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:42

And um, and so I'll happy to do it, you do the grip strength test.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:46

That's awesome. Grip strength, let's just let's talk about that for a second. It it seems so simple that people are like, no way that matters, but I'll tell you the simplicity around what the the simple example is why it matters. When you have good grip strength, you have natural good good grip strength. If if you have good grip strength, you have good quad strength. And if you have good quad strength, you have good posture. If you have good posture, you have good cardiovascular fitness. If you have good cardiovascular fitness, you know the rest of your body is is is functioning well. Um your uh your muscle mass is typically gonna be proportionate to your to your grip strength as well. And so all those things are are indicators of your body being able to move, and then we have this saying like a body in motion stays in motion. So all those things actually trace back to grip strength. And grip strength is the single metric that is tested and evaluated and scientifically proven the most of any metric to uh to assess and measure your longevity. No way. And it takes 10 seconds to do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:48

So we I can do like I I like honestly, I can do because I I'll do every warm up and and then warm down, I'll do like two rounds at the beginning, and then at the end, I'll try and go for. But I'll do like between minute 45 to two minutes and 30 seconds is usually what I can of a dead hang? Of a dead hang, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:12

That or farmers carry, right? Farmers carry.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:14

Is that that time? Is that okay? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:16

I mean I so I think that the the gold standard is two minutes plus. Okay, two minutes plus. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:21

It just depends on what workout I've done. But I can I can get over two minutes if um it's like I'm fresh. That's right. If I've done like a big workout, it's a little like I'm a little burnt out. But yeah, it's depth, I've saw that, and now even more so now I'm like, I'm now it's that now that's in my fucking head. I'm gonna be like, boom. But farmers carry it.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:38

Farmers carry as well. And the beauty of farmers carry is you you if you have good posture and good position, you will be able to hold it longer. It's also the same thing as a dead hang. If you do a dead hang and you're kind of loose and limp and you and you're you're not engaged. Like if you watch these uh Olympic gymnasts, they jump up on the bar, they they're not in a true dead hang. They're engaged, their lats are engaged.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:58

Well, because yeah, if you look back like this, then your different part of your your back is. Your posterior chain starts to break. So is your dead hang you'd say straight?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:05

And your lats are engaged. Yeah. And so you you actually it's the same thing like like in CrossFit, you're doing pull-ups. If you're engaged like a gymnast, you're the length that you have to do a pull-up is two to four inches less as well, right? So because you're you're you're firmly engaged. And so good grip strength that's leading to that that lat strength, which is putting your body in a good position, whether you're in a dead hang or you are doing farmer's carry and your your quads are engaged, so you so you're you're not breaking your posterior chain as well. You're putting your body in a good position. That's a healthy position. So if you stay in that position into your older age, you're less likely to slip and fall. You're frankly more more useful. You're still able to go and do yard work and do all those things that help keep you moving, and you keep moving, you live longer.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:52

So you implement then the blue zone some of that methodology from those parts into what you practice now.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:01

That's right. Yeah. So Agentus Longevity, which is what you're asking about, that's the company that we launched, and we're a national network of longevity clinics. Now our goal, our our our mission is to help advance healthier, happier, longer lives through these innovative healthcare solutions and give people access to it. And you think about the vision is to be the trusted transformative provider in longevity care, which really means that we have to do a number of things. We have to innovate, you have to build trust. But to build trust, you have to make these things accessible. We can't have the health and wealth divide be synonymous. It can't just be for rich people.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:38

That's that's another thing, because some people are like, well, you can only uh uh you can do that because you got money. It's like, no, no, like you can eating pro properly is not, you know, and and again, going for like a simple thing, going for a walk after you eat and just like moving and not like laying down. That is so important.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:58

Yes, that actually helps support your your blood glucose levels as well, and of course with digestion and whatnot.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:04

So you you should there's little things you can do that you can do, but I totally not I didn't mean to cut you off there, but it's so important to, and I think it becomes with education and with the the because everyone's talking about peptides right now, it's a big new thing. And what's scary about peptides with the internet and stuff, people can get peptides from wherever, right? And they're either not they're not purity, or you don't you just don't know what you're getting. And so with you guys from what I read up, like you have a very strict protocol of how that's right, how you guys source how how do you guys uh do your job?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:38

Sure, yeah. So part of that objective of being this trusted transformative provider, but also the bigger picture mission of like let's meet these unmet needs, you you have to engage all the different stakeholders. Where and I do think that most companies who are in our field are trying to find ways to adopt the most amount of patients and to have people trust them to spend the most money. And sure, that's all well and good, but we have this opportunity now with Secretary Kennedy to be a great partner and to transform the way that people approach their health care. Get out in front of your health care. And so the stakeholders that we have to be able to influence and support regulators, policymakers, physicians and patients. So the physician-patient autonomy has to come back to America. We're fighting for that. And then as you talk about peptides, working with suppliers as a stakeholder to drive what best in class solutions look like to be able to build trust with consumers is so key. So on this peptide conversation, what really happened was a couple years back, there were all these peptides that people were buying and they were starting to see good results and they they love them. They were moved, they were removed from what they call the safer compounding list. So if you buy peptides, they come from what's called a compounding pharmacy.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:53

Yeah, not for human use. Yeah, we'd say not for human use or for animal, whatever it was. They were saying that that's what they're calling research.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:00

Not that I was getting black market peptides. That's right. I I just saw an article.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:06

Well, that they were actually being produced in the high-quality compounding pharmacies.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:10

Then when they were when they were removed, then it actually made things way worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:15

Because what happened was then the FDA said, well, we said they're not safe, so you can't make them. But what happened was consumer demand kept going up. And so everybody started making them. And when everyone's making them, they're not abiding by the same standards because enforcement standards weren't enforcement standards weren't taking place. And so they effectively created this black market. Yeah. And it which was very unfortunate. Now we're in this wonderful position. There, there has been this win. So you think about the the win has been that Secretary Kennedy, about three months ago, removed those peptides from the unsafe for compounding list and he put them back under review. And so they are being reviewed now, and we're working front and center to say we can establish quality standards for compounding, and we can build robust standards and protocols to be able to teach physicians how to effectively use peptides to help care for their patients. So our fight there is to not just legitimize, but to build trust and to do so in a safe and effective manner.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:16

So we we know there's going to be great news. This will continue to be a battle. There's misaligned interests just like there was in the food system decades ago, right? There's money exchanging hands, and our whole goal is to go all the way back to those stakeholders. Let's align the interests of those five stakeholders so we can all win. And the nucleus of that is patient safety first. That's the whole you know, number one rule in medicine do no harm. So with Agentus, as we're working to drive that standard, we put these protocols and we put quality standards in place that we're fighting with to make the industry standard. So part of this is teaching compounders what good quality looks like and making sure they abide by good quality. Teaching our providers what what how do you tie back care to lab work and have true protocols to be able to care for patients? So we're working on those things. So when patients come to our clinic, they trust us because your clinics in Tennessee? We we have clinics around the country, but but we we are headquartered in the main headquarters in Nashville, yeah. Main ones there in Nashville, Tennessee. But we we have clinics around the country.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:22

Can people online apply if they're not something that's that close to start to engage with you to get information? We can put this all in the show notes as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:32

Yes, yes, they they can. So the the the core of what we have created with with Agentists as we we partner with and acquire these clinics, we have to find ways to create this consistent patient journey as we start to expand services and create this blueprint for what a really good quality longevity center looks like. So we created this program that I was referencing called the the longevity quotient. And the longevity quotient is five key tests that when you're in the proximity of our clinics, you can go through. So there's a body composition test, a cognitive function test, there's a grip strength test, and then we do a what's called like a cardiometabolic exam, and then we go through robust biomarkers.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:13

Those five tests, we then batch them into I've never seen a test that I've taken a bunch of different, but I'm to incorporate it, which is actually super fascinating. Because it's like you'll do a bunch of tests, but then these other ones that you could correlate or at least take some things off the table, some guesswork of like, well, this could be this or this, but if I'm sure with grip strength and this and those other ones that you were saying with the metal uh metabolic was the yeah, oh cardiac cardio metabolic health. So that's sort of so when you get those tests, but then with your blood panel, like there's it's so much more detail in there where you're eliminating the guesswork.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:51

That's right. So we actually we we built these tests together because we wanted one than so all the tests were scientifically validated, clinically tested, and then we wanted to pull these markers together and and break them out into domains so people knew where to focus. So we break them out into like heart health domains, cognitive function domains, metabolic health, physical health, nutrition. We took all that data and we actually partnered with a world-class biostatistician to help us put together the algorithm to understand the correlation between all this data and to start to create logic and reason. So this is this whole thing is actually it's a score. It's like a scoreboard for your health. So the longevity quotient is a single score. And then under it, you have these eight domains, and you have a cogn cognitive function score, a heart health score, a hormone score, et cetera. We tie our care plans back to that. So when you think about the world of peptides right now, before something like this existed, you go online or you find someone, you buy peptides that you want. What we do is we take those eight domains and then we take the proposed indication for use of these various peptides, and we create protocols and stacks and we put them together within those domains, like a cognitive function peptide stack, a hormone peptide stack. So we're able to tie their care plans directly back to those areas where their score may be low or that they may need uh some help. Now, that is what people go through when they are within the region of our Linux, but you asked about online. So what we've done is we we have created this algorithm that six of those eight domains you can actually get from extremely robust blood work. So for a couple hundred bucks, people can go to the site and they can sign up for what's called the longevity quotient light. And we actually, if you're in areas where our service providers are at, which is the large majority of the country, we will send somebody to your house, they'll draw your blood, and you have the app, your scores will be populated there within a couple days, and your care plans are automated. Well, and then through Telemed, you talk to a provider and they can prescribe you what's necessary for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:04

What I love about that too, it's like it's taking because it's hard to go to the clinic or it's hard to, you know, there's life is busy, you got kids, whatever it is. And when when life is moving at the speed of light that life does, it's so easy to I'll do it tomorrow, and then tomorrow never comes. But the best medicine is preventative medicine, I believe, is getting in there early and understanding too, if you're depending on what your diet is, your inflammate your inflammatory markers, and and really kind of getting a grasp on that, the sooner the better to really think. Because when you can write that course, everything is is fixable up into a certain extent. But if you let it go too long, I'm sure, but there's it's a lot more work and a lot more panic. And it's you know, I I cannot stress it enough. Like health is wealth. It is, it is it you can make all the money in the world, and if you're sick at the end of it, you you need to like it's so important. And not that money's the end-all be-all, but even being present, you know, people will spend so much money, they'll spend fifty thousand dollars on a weekend in Vegas or or on a trip somewhere, but then you say, you know, you know, I they'll that's too much money to to get gym membership or this, but they'll waste money on killing themselves and eating like crap and doing those things. And then when they're, you know, when it's gone too far, then there's they're buried in medical bills because they didn't take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:28

Yeah, and there is such a core an interesting psychological correlation to that behavior as well. And I do often say that in healthcare, it's very difficult to institute rational thinking. You think about the person that wants to go spend 20 grand in in Las Vegas, most of that is this pursuit of uh filling a void, and oftentimes like from a hormonal perspective, there's a there's a a void, and um it's either a cortisol spike that's leading you to want to find ways to alleviate that and offset that with this dopamine push. And so they'll they'll chase those things. Health is a very different conscientious decision because it's truly an investment.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:06

And it's a long road. That's right. It's a long road. And unfortunately, at least in this country, a lot a lot of people don't choose to pursue that until they start to lose their health.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:21

And I think that there's uh this this saying that you know it's something like you'll you you may pursue other values like money until you lose your health, and then the only thing that matters is your health. Yeah. And that that is true, but unfortunately, um we're in a world now that not a lot of most people have not seen that. But I think that there's a uh there's a shift. There's some beautiful things happening, at least here in America. Ben's drinking is significantly lower. Yeah, party culture is dying.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:53

I mean, one of the biggest, they're saying one of the biggest uh new industries right now is analog. Like people, like, but like there's something here in Charleston, I forget, I just saw it. It's this, it's a it's a health and wellness party where you show up, there's no alcohol. Oh, this is awesome. And there, and it's coal plunging, there's a DJ, there's a sauna, you know, and I'm like, dude, that's not that sounds awesome, but but it's a young crowd, too. Like it's like they're getting together and they're getting up and getting after it. There's there's run clubs, there's this, so there's a real community, which I think is people have been so inundated with AI and the COVID thing that we're sort of in this this downward spiral. And I was part of that. It was a very odd time. But it's great to see people like, I don't know what's real anymore than I'm looking at on the phone anymore. I need to go out and actually physically experience it to see if what I'm uh I I saw is real. And I think the best thing that could have happened to us is this sort of new move. And they're saying this, this sort of health industry, these live events is the next big boom.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:54

That's right. So there's yeah, there's a number of different things that are pointing towards this. There are biohacking clubs opening up in colleges, there's longevity clubs opening up in colleges. We have some friends that started this uh similar to framework where that you see in Nashville. They started these sauna studios and they they they set them up as like two to four people to be able to go in, and they noticed that the only ones that were being used were the big ones. I understand. So that they they rebuilt them to be able to hold 12 to 16 people, and people are going and doing their co-plunge and their contrast therapy parties, you know, they're going to sauna.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:27

It's so much nicer when you're in a hot sauna, it's 220 degrees, because if you can talk to someone and you forget that you're in there and someone's like, Oh, we're up here, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:34

When you're there alone, you're like, well, that's like the same thing I experienced in Rowan. It's like you put on some music and get a meditate, get a nice meditative state. Yeah, and there's actually some science around this. So sitting in a in a sauna, and uh, this is one of the beauties that I think people like Brian Johnson have helped us find out the heat shock proteins that are achieved that help to actually reduce inflammation. You do have to sit in a sauna at an extreme heat. 220. Yep, 220 for the extra.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:01

The Nordic style sauna, too, right? With that's right. Um, and and there's all sorts of data stating from the people from that part that started with heart disease and all sorts of different. I mean, you can expand on that, but that like the sauna is one thing that there's unequivocal data in there. It's not just some like fad, it is real data. These people for thousands of years have been doing this. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:23

Yes, and I and I think the challenge is there's some conflicting data around how hot you have to get, and then maybe don't go straight in the cold plunge afterwards, it continues heat shock protein activation. But yes, I believe that the the metrics are it's over 30 minutes, it's over 220, and you activate that heat shock protein, which is going to help to reduce it.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:44

You gotta and like obviously, like build up to it. Like get like if you can only last the first couple, then then just get if it's 200, then stay in 200, but then the next time get to 205, and just slowly don't just go in there trying to do two 220 for 30 minutes because you're gone. You know, you're I mean you probably did it right at the end.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:02

Uh it can be pretty tough. You probably did it right at the end.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:04

She's like, turn it at 250.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:06

Well, it it it you have to work yourself up. I mean, just like an anthem, though, right? I mean, if if you're gonna start this health journey, uh, just just go outside and take a step and then then take two steps and then run a mile and work your way up and and find different ways to uh to have that be some that that you enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:23

And community is important too.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:25

Find finding people, yeah, do it with people. Join the run clubs and yeah, but you know, and back to that, I mean, it's just such a beautiful thing to see this party culture changing and party culture becoming like let's get together and drink these new, you know, these healthy new tropics with you know with alliance.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:39

We had we had it on one of the shows, we had this uh it was like a kava something tea, and it was like that we just drank it on the show. It was like a relaxing thing. I was like, after the show, I was out.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:50

It's nice, huh?

SPEAKER_04 1:45:51

I was like, it was a great thing. There's all these different, like um, you know, cact, uh like the cactus stuff. I don't know, there's a bunch of different ones I'll just try just to see. But it we're in such a uh a new um like with lion's main and all these other gone that's I actually tried this recently. I tried this peptide dihexa for cognitive. Man, that and uh CMAX. CMAX.

unknown 1:46:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:16

I I literally thought like I would in my own mind I thought it was like Bradley Cooper from Limitless. I was like, I'm retaining a lot of information, but it really does. It it just was such like it just felt super clear. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:28

Um that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:29

And there's there are a number of different people are really investing in those cognitive enhancement supplementations, drinks, peptides. It's really there, there's there's a big movement around it because people are understanding that the ability to use your brain to think clearly is going to lead to good decisions, lead to longevity. And you know, um, so we actually just speaking of the movement, we did a happy hour in Nashville at a uh uh a nootropics store. No way, and so no alcohol, and we just had them clear off the table and we went in there, and it's like the lion's mane, the kava's, you know, the these all these healthy drinks, and then actually our home now because we we cut out alcohol a few years ago, cold turkey, and our bar car is all these you know fancy nootropic drinks. Oh wow, and our um little kitchen at work is only nootropics as well. Oh, I love it. It's just cool, and it's one, it's a neat talking point, and it does help like if you're looking to completely stop drinking. Yeah, I do realize sometimes there's a habit of like a nice little glass with some ice, some some interesting stuff, you know, poured in that. So that was actually made it easy for us to just cut alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:43

It is a little bit like uh I don't drink drink a ton, but I I'll have cocktails here and there, and on our filter Fridays, we have uh a cocktail because it's the Friday show or whatever. But it it the the the shows that we've done with those nootropics have just been just as fun, you know. And we're in a we're like natural inn in South Carolina. It's such a uh it's just such a part of the the culture. But the the you know, I'll go months or six months, I'll I'll take a break and go back and forth. But you do when you're not drinking, everything is just it's unbelievable how good you feel and how much your body thanks you for taking care of it. It really is. It's it's it's a crazy thing, but then you kind of go in these waves of like, oh, you know, you go on a vacation, and it again, it's it's this, and it just saying it out loud, it's like you're wanting to, you know, be so healthy and take care of it, and then you're like, but I'm gonna just relax and have a cocktail, which is so counterproductive. Um, and it's it just that constant sort of you know, go like everybody gets together to um you know to have a glass of wine or go out and have this and they have this great moment, but then the next day, the day is that's right, it's ruined. That's right. And as you get older, it just gets more painful.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:02

And you think about how much you invest in your health to then go and sacrifice those things. But it's so interesting the the the social pressure and the subtle pressure, it's not like, oh, why aren't you drinking? But it's just like you go, you hang out with some friends and they order drinks, and the when it comes back up, it's like you like a drink, and you're like, yes, and then it just happens. And yeah, so yeah, so for me, the the stopping alcohol was for was just because it was more like let's just try something that I haven't done. And so we cut it out, and I was actually trying to improve my heart rate variability, which is like a stress indicator, which has been um historically low for me. And so the the lower that HRV is, the typically the more stress that you're that you're under, the more constant stress. So I was trying to find ways to find ways to improve that. So I just did stop. Did it improve? It helped some. It didn't move the needle like I was like I hoped it it would, but it definitely helped some. But now really it's uh two you know core values here like honoring my body and honoring that time. The morning that 4 30 in the morning. It's a heck of a lot easier when you don't drink. And the other one is the value of family. I've got two babies, two babies on your T house, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:50:09

Yeah, yeah. You are. So we're 100% out of it. Oh, you 100%. I told you even more so now. Like you having a five-month-old baby. Yeah, there's no dog call. There's no, there's no time.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:21

Yeah, that's right. That's right. There's no time. And you and you, of course, wants also be the great father and great mother and be president. But on top of that, it's like, hey man, like I want to feel good. I'm I'm not.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:31

Those are the best years, man. They really are. Um, my man, I'm so grateful for you to come on the show. I was really excited to have you. I want to thank Sydney Gordon at Core Medical, a really dear friend of both of ours, who's an absolute stud for making the introduction. He said, he's like, he texted me privately, he's like, dude, you're gonna love this guy. And he was right, you're you're an absolute stud. Thank you. I really appreciate um just sharing your story and what you're doing and and the sort of the life you're building. We're gonna put all the sh in the show notes of how to get in contact with you. Um and you know, tomorrow is a new day, and if you're not feeling healthy right now, give this man a call. Reach out to his company, he will put you on the right path. And don't be afraid to do it. It's like you just gotta all you gotta do is pick up the phone and they're gonna walk you through. And try your grip strength. And if you if you cannot get to the two minutes, it's it's tough to do. It took me work to get there, but focus on those little things because some of these things have never correlated together. It's incredibly fasting. But I really appreciate you flying in um here. I don't know if you guys could hear during the show that thunder um and lightning has been going off. Uh, we had to stop kind of mid-show because Sean was panicking that we might lose everything. And I'm very grateful for you, Sean, for for noticing that. Because this, if we had a lost this, it would have been horrible. But um, I really appreciate you, man. I I I uh I wish you continued success um in your life with your new family and uh your new your new daughter?

SPEAKER_03 1:52:03

Uh two two sons and a 14-year-old daughter.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:05

So two sons, so your your new baby, what are their names?

SPEAKER_03 1:52:07

Uh so Phoenix and and and Leonidas.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:09

Oh nice, perfect. And my daughter's actually Willow Phoenix, that's her name. Oh wow, okay. Yeah, so uh we because she's the in Irish tradition, um the when your if your parent dies, the firstborn of the of that child, um the soul or the energy they say goes into that firstborn. So we we're like we call it Phoenix, the arise rising from the ashes. Okay. Um and then we're like, well, and my wife was like, well, I think we should be like Willow Phoenix. It was like perfect. So beautiful. Yeah, so Willow Phoenix is her name. That's good. I love the name Phoenix, the rise from the ashes. It's such a powerful name.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:46

Yes, and that's actually, you know, um we wanted our baby, of course, to have a name with a purpose, and that's exactly why why we named him Phoenix. And some of that was some of the the pursuit of resilience and recreating yourself. And of course, we as parents want our children to have more and be better than we were. And I like to think that Phoenix is my first son will become a better version of me as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:10

I love that. That's very powerful. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Ours is Willow, Ranger, and Bodie. Oh, yeah. We got two trees, and then Ranger is the the the uh the ranger of the forest. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:20

Yeah, so we have um Phoenix, Leonidas, and then Brooke is my 14-year-old daughter as well. And um Brooke being a calming force, and that's exactly who she is in the family for for us, and Leonidas, of course, uh, I love her Leonidas. And it actually means in Greek son of the lion as well. And we we heard that and we said that that's that's the name, and of course, the you know, the the history of the of the you know the Spartan king and yeah um and who he was and what he did for you know that that era and generation as well. So powerful names, and uh we're we're very we're very proud. But I I love the you know, love the fact that we've got the similarities in the name as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:57

For sure. Well, listen, man, I I I know your wife who's in town, you guys are gonna go out to Charleston. I do recommend there's a couple of restaurants we always talk about, Halls, if you can go to Halls.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:04

Oh yes, actually, well, believe it or not, yeah. I ate at Halls last night in Asheville. No, and that's the one. That's right. I always go to that one there. Yeah, we we had we had a team there, so but Halls is a beautiful place.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:15

One of the owners at Halls, I coached his son in flag football. Yeah, and his son is but was this little, he's like I he was like uh um remember the player uh played for the Buccaneers Allstott? Oh yeah, so his son's like with this little just tank. He was the youngest kid on the team, and just so I became good buddies with him. But anytime I go to Nashville, because I'll do the podcast out of Nashville sometimes, um, or um or here. So I got introduced to Hall's out here and then went to, but it's the best. It is so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:42

Yeah, quite the experience. Yeah, man, that is a small world. That's too funny. Yeah, Hall's is a great spot.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:47

Yeah, it's a great spot. Well, there's a ton of other great spots out there. Um you're gonna have a great night. It's good. You guys are with kids or without kids?

SPEAKER_03 1:54:53

Or without kids. Maybe it's the first time. So that I said, listen, I'm going to Charleston and I know you love that city, and so we've got the babies back home. We're gonna enjoy a night.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:01

Oh man, well, I won't keep you much. Hopefully, the rain is is passed over and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:05

I grew up in Seattle and I love the rain. It's too many. It's we're we're happy no matter what as long as we do.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:10

But you are welcome here anytime, dude. Anything's going on, if you're ever doing any charity stuff or you need this platform to get the word out, you have open door apologies.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:19

Thank you, man. Special person, and just really happy to have the chance to get to know you and share a great story. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:25

There we have it. Another great episode of the AJ Buckley Show. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe. All the info on our guests will be in the show notes. And um let your spirit lead. Have a great rest of the week.