SPEAKER_02 0:00

I was sort of believing my own shit or maybe playing into a character that uh and but uh it was subconscious, I guess. But then you can't fake it. You know, you gotta like do everything right. And even then it probably, you know, they pops off and you you put your head in your hands.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

But my next guest, I'm incredibly excited to have on this show. I met him when I first moved down to South Carolina, and it was on a fishing trip, and then I got invited out to this hunting um experience, and I met some other great people on that. This guy has got an incredible ability of bringing great people together. Um he's also one of the stars of Southern Charm. He spent twelve years on one of the biggest reality shows on the planet. Now you would think because of Southern Charm, we're gonna get into all the gossip. All the gossip, all the negative stuff. But we're not. We actually don't even touch it. Maybe just a tip. But what we do get into is this man's journey. He has turned his life around in so many different ways. He is flawed, like all of us, but he is searching deep inside to find his greater purpose. And it was such an honor to have him on the show. I can't thank him enough for his honesty, his vulnerability, and this new journey, this new chapter that he's on. So please welcome to the show Mr. Shamros.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Welcome to the AJ Puppet Show Don't Know. He's totally kidding, unless you're serious.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Dude, it's good to have you on the show, man. It's good to be here. Um, I like what you've done with the place. I know. I j I I dressed it up just for you. Um what the traveling, getting back from on 4th of July weekend. I mean, it just it's it's already sucks traveling, but you will not believe what happened to me. It sounded like a nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

So I was in Toronto, never been. It was a lovely, lovely city. Um, and I did a little book signing event and uh had a lot of fun, met some great people, and then my friend, uh, who I've known for tw uh 25 years from back in West Palm days when I lived down there, he his family's has land and uh presence for generations in a place called uh Quicka Lake, Cuca, Cuca, and it's it's the uh Finger Lakes up in North upstate New York. And um, he's been begging me to come. He has like a convenience store, there's a little bar and sandwiches and a gas dock right on the lake. So people come in and and hang out. So I that's what I did. And um, it was great. Do you need fly fishing? I didn't, I didn't even really get out on the water. Um, he's so busy um running his store that I just kind of hung out of the store. I met people, I sold some more books, I brought a box of books with me. Everybody was very excited about that. So uh it was all good. And then um I go back to Rochester, New York to try to get on a flight back here. And uh delay, delay, delay. That was shoot, that was two days ago.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

And we were talking on like Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Yeah, right. And so so um we're at the gate, and the the captain, you know, comes out of the thing and they're yelling at each, like the the staff, like, get on the planet. I was like, oh no, this doesn't feel good. So uh the captain comes out and is like, here's the deal, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not looking so great. And these girls uh were there, and we kind of had like nodded at each other uh briefly, and they were I was like, Who are you? And they were like, Well, we're we're from South Georgia. We went to UGA. I was like, I went to UGA, and they were like, Yeah, we know who you are. And I was like, Cool, cool. I was like, you know, what sorody were you?

SPEAKER_01 4:00

And we were kind of laughing. This this sounds like the beginning of a Ben Affleck movie where he's like trap, he's trapped overnight somewhere. Xander Bullock is there. Hope floats, yeah, whatever that movie is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Um, so anyhow, yeah, I'll I'll be brief or try to um they were like, we're here visiting our friend's parents, and uh, they have an amazing situation housewise, right uh 30 minutes away from the airport, and their son is coming to pick us up right now. Do you want to come with us? They have an extra bedroom. And I was like, What? I was like, okay. I was like, I was like, what are my other options to myself? You know, and and uh I was like, they were so nice. They're you know, they're they're young girls, and and uh I was like, yeah, I'll go with you. And uh the parents were big fans of the show, they were very excited to have me there. Yeah, what's up to Chris and Andrea and outside Rochester? I went to their house. And of course you did. They had wine for everybody, and we sat outside beautiful house. Did you have any books to bring? Uh I didn't. I had nothing to give them, but he's a big golfer and he's a member of Oak Hill Country Club, which is right down the road. He invited me to come back. I am probably gonna take him up on that. It's a major awesome course, dude.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Uh yeah, got a nice rest in the morning. Woke up with the mom and and the three uh girls, my travel companions, and I took them out to breakfast uh at the local bakery, and and we just kind of hung out.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Well, it kind of just seems like that would happen to you. I know it's like no other person like okay, you know. Isn't it weird in life how life imitates art and art imitates life? I played a ghost facer on Supernatural, one of the greatest ghost hunters of all time. And now I'm sleeping in a ghost bed, a ghost facer in a ghost bed, having the best dreams of his life. Part of the reason why I feel like I haven't caught any ghosts is because ghosts come out at a certain time of night. I'm asleep. I don't even get bothered by the ghost because I'm off in Dreamland. Before when I was on a little crappy mattress in a haunted mansion, I'd wake up because I was uncomfortable. Now that doesn't happen. Now I'm off to sleep, and anything spooky, it ain't bothering me. Continue on, spirits, continue on. Go to ghostbed.com forward slash buckley. Code word buckley. Get yourself 10% off. Do what any good ghost facer would do, or any fan of supernatural, because this sleep is so good, it's supernatural.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yeah, and I mean, honestly, I say this in the book a little bit. People ask me, uh, what's your secret, or you know, what's the key to your life? And mine, uh, after thinking about it, I said it's saying yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

I was just gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Yeah. And that gets me in trouble, too, by the way. Um, a lot of trouble sometimes. Uh, but it's also been the key. And um, you know, hey, you want to do a TV show, a reality TV show in Charleston? Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Hey, you want to take a month and go to Australia? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

You know, like all the all the things, yeah. They say too, like, when you're doing like improv as an actor, you say you're at a scene, the second you say no to in during an improv, the scene dies. Yes, it just loses its momentum. So you constantly are like, yeah, so it builds, it gives it life. The yes always you build upon that yes, and then you get to go here, and then the story gets bigger. If someone goes no, it just dies. That's interesting. So it's some sort of is if there's something I really believe that there's something in that. I I when I first went to New York, it was probably like 25. And I was like, I'm just I I didn't had no idea where the city like how to get around the city. And everybody explained the grid. But I walked out of my hotel and I was like, I'm just gonna go wherever the green light is. And I'm just gonna, even if if I keep going around in circles, I'm just gonna walk to where you know, and it was the every day for the two weeks that I was there, uh, when I had days off, I would just like wander around wherever's green light. I would and I went to the coolest spots. I don't know, I couldn't like map where I went or how I was there, but man, it was like there is something about just being like giving it up and be like, yeah, okay, let's go. See what happens. I agree. Um before we get into the book and stuff, though, I just want to sort of rewind and go back and just I know you're you're from Charleston. I'm from Hilton Head Island, Hilton Head Island originally, which is beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, and it's it's pretty ideal. Like, I was, I mean, my childhood was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Um I my what were you like as a boy? Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

I was crazy. I couldn't sit still. Um I was alive wire for sure, and my friends um were all we were all you know the the uh neighborhood uh bad boys basically, but we were it was also a tight-knit community, a small island, small-ish island. And it was perfect because in the summertime my mom opens up the back door. We have our mountain bikes at the time, and I'll see you at supper, you know, and and me and yeah, I go to friends' house, and then we decide to go to the beach, and there's really not a lot that can that can go wrong, and there's not a lot of bad actors, as it were. Any really. I don't think there was one murder uh like in the history of the island, and it was like a domestic thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

I think I was that the one with like the the Russian I don't know. I saw it on True Crimes. It was like Hilton Horter, maybe it was Bu Belford. Buford. Buford, yeah. That whole area down there is insane. I took the kids last Christmas. We went down and where they do the um the lights, uh on the they do the floats or whatever. They all have like the the like the in Bluffton? Yeah, yeah. And they do all like on the they walk along the beach with all the different octopuses and all the fish and stuff. And it was awesome. It's amazing. It's such a really cool thing, and it has that very tight-knit sort of thing. And that that I honestly that's something I fell in love with with Charleston when when we moved here, it was just how how kind everybody is out of the gates.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Yeah, you know, and if you know the parents, yeah, that's like an extra level of comfort. I mean, and you know them well too. Yeah, and you're you've you've cracked a beer with them or broke bread or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

When we came when our neighborhood here, you know, um just just kind of going off. We like how I grew up was like my mom always said, you know, come home when the lights are when the street lights come come on. Yeah. I had five minutes to get home when the after the street lights are and when I was in LA with the kids, I was so worried that they were gonna they weren't gonna get to experience that. But now it's like now I know where they are by where their BMX bikes are parked, or their bikes are parked somewhere. Then I'm like, oh, they're down at you know, Brian's or Abbey's or wherever they're at. They're just down the street. Or someone will be like, hey, your kids are over here, should I feed them dinner? You know, or a bunch of kids will show up here and we're cooking them dinner. It's just like it's just like these troves of kids, or there's kids. Well, I'll come home and there'll be kids in the snack thing just eating. They're like, hey, hey, hey, hey, Mr. HA, like, what are you doing here? Oh, Ranger's too. I can get where's Ranger? He's down at my house. You came down to my house to get the snack. You got good snacks.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

You got good snacks. We had the best snacks in my house.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

My mom was thanks, mom. Yeah, yeah. It's a crazy thing. So, you're how many kids are in your family?

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Uh, brother, uh younger brother, older sister. Um, sister uh is very uh smart and um and and and you know did all her homework and read books and and uh stayed out of the fray, essentially. Um and so I you know, just to cure my boredom, I would just torture my little brother or my restlessness. Yeah, but it was out of love, and it was more mental torture than physical torture, and and you know, I'd get in trouble because I would go to bed a little later. We shared a room with two beds, and uh I would go to bed a little later, so my mom would give him a chance to go to sleep. But a lot of the times I would keep him up laughing and talking, and yeah, I mean, just some really warm memories uh from that. And um, and then once I got a little older, me and my friends were 14, 15, 16, and we had all the cute girls coming over and we're throwing, you know, small little get-togethers, and my little brother and his friends were like 11. They were like, Oh my god, it's that girl that I like dream about, you know, and she's right there. And so they were they were absolute, so I kind of gave them a window, and and uh so they I think my brother appreciated that. He should because it was uh I he had a front row seat to some cool thing.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Do you ever think about because there's there was this, I forget it was on Instagram, there was somebody that did this montage of things about the last time. There's always the last time, but you don't realize it's the last time. Yeah, you know, like the last time you lift your kids, or the last time you, you know, share that room with your brother, you know, or you have those. Do you ever think back to those not knowing like just say you remembered your brother and you guys having these great memories and stuff, but that day that was like, oh, now you've gone to the next part of your life.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah, and I I write about it too. Um I was there uh on the medicine, and um I had uh I heard from uh uh the my attendees, fellow attendees, it was very open and you know, share your story if you want. You don't have to. And um what I heard was so much trauma and pain and from the past, and I I don't think uh we uh realize that until you hear your average person walking down the street is probably dealing with something you have no idea about, and um so I just had this immense gratitude. How lucky have I had it? And I had these visions of memories, beautiful memories. Um, my mom making chocolate chip pancakes after we we went surfing all morning, and my friends got grilled cheeses and and pizza and and watching the the bulls win another championship and watching Michael Jordan fly through the air. Yeah, and then the final one was really beautiful. It was um my sister being picked up for her first prom. Wow, and me and mom and dad and little brother were in the courtyard. We were hiding behind the couch watching the awkward exchange, and it was just something that I'll never forget.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah, and it this seems to be, you know, because when when we met, we was uh was on the fishing boat um on Grank Dave Robinson, everybody pull us together, which was such an epic that was my very first deep sea fishing experience. Oh wow, yeah. I'd never been on a boat like that, and everyone's like, it's you've been ruined. Like that was just awesome. And then it was like as like Swoley and everybody was there, and uh, I think it was like every time somebody caught a fish, we did a fireball shot. That was dangerous. I remember I remember I got dropped off of the house with like a bag of you know, Mahi Mahi, and my wife was like, What is happening to you? I'm like, it's the greatest dream life. It was fire up the grill. It was so crazy. And and then then we went to you put together this amazing hunt thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Yes, pheasant, a tower shoot, and uh up near uh Hemingway, South Carolina, yeah. Where uh the original Rodney Scott's is not far by uh uh away. But anyhow, that's part that's barbecue talking.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

But I've met like two like some of my closest friends out here, Caleb, who have become really close with such an amazing human creature. I was staying at his house. His uh boards are there, those are skateboards.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

He I have some of his artwork too.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

He's just one of the most interesting guys I've ever met. Yeah, the coolest realtor on planet earth. There you go. He really is.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

So yeah, I mean, uh, I love to shoot. Um, I mean, I I would say my passions in life are uh fishing, fly fishing, uh, surfing, uh, hunting, and golf and travel, basically.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I remember you telling me, I've never been fly fishing before, and I've always could, but I remember you got on this really deep conversation with me on the boat after a couple fireballs, uh uh uh just about how calming fly fishing was for you. Yeah. What is that like for you? Like what is it exactly?

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Well, you're you're super connected to nature, um, and you're you then you can't fake it. You know, you've got to like do everything right. And even then, it probably you know it pops off and you you put your head in your hands, but you're essentially doing what the Native Americans did or whomever, what whatever culture did years for centuries upon centuries. So you feel really connected, and then you know, a lot of the places you go, be it Alaska or the Bahamas, are just so gorgeous. So you're immersed in nature, and yeah, you you your one focus is doing is performing correctly. Yeah, and so there's something zen about that. It better be zen, or else you're just gonna fuck it all up, which I've done, by the way. I've had one of those days where the line is caught on a tree, and then you gotta redo everything. So it's um it's very rewarding if you have one of those good days.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Do you have any flies that are like your special or your lucky flies that you've made?

SPEAKER_02 17:14

I have I do not tie flies, I I buy them at uh at out at outfitter stores. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah, but for for someone like I feel like the similarities a lot with us was like, I can't stop, I can't sit still, I've gotta keep going. But the times that I've gotten out, and since I moved here, I've gotten into hunting. It's I really like you gotta like you you're forced to slow down.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, you can't slow down. That's my biggest thing I tell myself.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah, because I find it hard for that first, at least that the first day out, I'm just like I I really have to like like I don't bring like there's no phone, there's no nothing. I'm just like I've gotta take it in and remind myself why I'm out here. And it it does take like the day to for the body to go, hey dude, just relax. It's gonna be good. And then after I do that, then things start to happen. But that first day while I'm all wound up, it's like it's like I'm throwing the energy off or something like that. Yeah, does it take you a beat when you get out there?

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah, I mean, uh I've I've gone two years now on a mothership off of Cuba to this place called the Gardens of the Queen, and it's fascinating. Um, and and I could go on and on, but we we we take a boat five hours off the the mainland of Cuba to this Archipelago, which is a bunch of islands that is untouched by man, essentially. There's nobody out there, and they're except for a ton of tarpon. Whoa, and live tarpon in the backyard, yeah, yeah. Um, and then um some bone fish and permit and permit are really hard to catch. So you're phone done work out there, so and you're out there for seven days and on a on a big mothership with your friends, and it's paradise, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah, it's it's when you think about it too. Our gen like how old are you?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

I am 46.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So yeah, um I'm 49. So our generation was the last generation like to not have social media. Yeah. Like we didn't, like, we didn't our childhood wasn't with phones or with like screens, or which always when I look back, because my my boys are like, Dad, what what did you do when you're kidding? I'm like, we were outside, like we played, like there was no yeah, and it's so crazy now to see what that has done to just the world in itself. Like you go places people are just staring at their phones, and I'm a hundred percent at fault for it. Me too, I do it. But I'll always try and be like trying to pull myself and be like, okay, I've got a I've got these timers in my phone to like remind me, okay, put it down, yeah, take a break. But it does, it does take it.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

I remember flip phones being like, I was like, oh, I have a phone in my hand. But um, yeah, that's another part of um sorry to my little brother Whitaker, on road trips, family road trips down to Florida. I would just my entertainment was torturing him, basically. I would put his name into every song that came onto the radio and um it drive him nuts and my mom nuts. But now you put on uh Ice Age or whatever, right in the back of the seat, and nobody says a word for like three hours.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

My kids get so excited because we'll leave early in the morning, we'll pack up the the truck early, they'll all get in, we'll get like the pillows and you know the snacks, and we'll have have you seen this the snackle pack? It's like it's like a it's like it's like a it's like a tackle box, okay, but it's like uh oh I got a fly in here. It's a friend. Um uh it's a it's like a tackle box, but it's a snackle thing, so it's got all these little sections. My kids love it because they you can put all the my wife is really good at like organizing it, but they get so excited before we hit the road, they've got all their things, they've got their movies, and they just all but it's it's it's one of those things where those memories as we're driving, and I look in the rear view mirror and I'm like, this is this what this is what my dad probably saw, except we just didn't have the screens. As we get older, it is so important to stay on top of our blood work. That's why I'm incredibly proud to have Pure RX, one of our sponsors of the show. Go to aj.purex.co, type in time to shine in the notes, and you will get 50% off your blood work. It's summertime. You want to go camping, you want to go off-road and get your truck, a lift kit, go to total off-road. TJ and Dan are my guys here in Charleston. They're the best. Huge thank you to them for being sponsors of the show. You got a Paver and Princess, head to Total Off-Road, get your truck lifted like a real man.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

I got a question for you. Yeah. Did your when you met your wife and all your energy, uh, what was was she like how you know, was she the perfect counterbalance to that?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

100%.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

But did she was she like you are a freaking handful, and I'm I don't know what to do with you some sometimes?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Yeah, yeah. I get I had good jokes, so I think that you know, you know, I I I kept her laughing. But uh we uh yeah, it was. lot of girls think that about me too that I and I'm like I have to like be like look I I know I am a lot yeah it was like I I kind of was always like life of the party or just always like going to like I'll just like even like when I go to the even now like I I just kind of start wondering because I start talking to people right and my wife is is is used to it now and she'll do the same thing but I don't even mean to just like you're pop pop like it like you go around you're talking to people and you're you're enjoying your your uh but it but it just my brain just goes into hyper speed but yeah it would it took her a beat to I think it adjust but again I think she just did kids help you chill out yeah it it made me I would say kids made me realize that I I I was gonna die one day and it scared the shit out of me. I think that was the biggest thing I was like oh I want to be here yeah I don't want to miss this like it became because I've always feel like I'm a b I've always been a big kid like I I believe in Santa Claus I love going to the toy store like I just like even though I tell my wife that it's for the kids I'm going to toy store I really go to Target to the toy also like look at what other remote control cars I can get. I just love amazing you know and but like the the the I think the hardest part of that is I have to slow down for them. Yeah you know because otherwise I miss so many things. Like I've got to be and it's hard it's really hard sometimes with the schedule and traveling and filming and all those other things but you know that's why having a good wife and someone that can like keep you in check and be like hey like you're spinning out of it right now. You're overwhelmed with work your kids need your attention. Yeah and I think that's finding a partner like that I think is is a is an important thing and I think every ex-girlfriend that I had prepared me for my wife. Yeah because I it wasn't that they were horrible people or anything but it was just I finally figured out what was what you needed what I needed. And it was that good yin and yang as opposed to yin and yang I've been saying that recently to yeah well now now regards to the book so I I what what the research that I got to to do about and the brief that we talked about it um over at Robinson's that one day like how did this come out like it's like yeah so you jump on a plane to Costa Rica for four days seven days.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Seven days oh my gosh but you do four days in a row on the medicine where were you at in your life that you were at not in a good place I mean can you talk about that yeah yeah um I was had a pocket full of money and a bunch of free time you know what I mean and um and people wanted to hang out with me and sounds like a Bob Dylan song or Johnny Cash. Who were buddies and they wrote their music together. Anyway so um yeah and and then not to mention or I am mentioning it um the show Southern charm that I was on for years and in and still am that was about us having fun in Charleston hey let's grab another one you know like where we meet and uh guzzle guzzle guzzle and people like to party here. Yes they do and and and everywhere really but so I was sort of believing my own shit or maybe playing into a character that uh and but you it was subconscious I guess but so I had a really bad few months um like like uh four or five different nights where were you sad inside? I don't think so I think it was a function of boredom and then free time and then add alcohol yeah and and and um and here's the other part and this is what I I've said many times to friends and and people close to me I don't have a re if I don't have a reason to go home and take care of a wife or kids like that's that's no good. I mean like that means I'll continue to roam around like your anchor you need like a good anchor. Yeah I I'll continue to roam around like and prowl around basically and and as it's a war of attrition when you're when you're having fun like that and I'm getting older my body it doesn't react to it the same I it's horrible I can't jam all night and then wake up and do it again and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

So that that was a cool thing when you'd be like you'd go and then you'd like wake up and be like let's go again and it would well what's a hangover I've never had a hangover before you'd come back and you like your body was like we're good. And then one day it's like fuck you buddy.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yeah and then you're you find yourself you know face down in a gutter.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah not today Satan not today.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah and then you know you gotta like your friends are like you know hey last night was you need to tighten up and um yeah so that that that was starting to cause despair and it still kind of does I still screw up you know I still have a you know so I I'm not saying I'm cured or I'm still trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

But um so my friend uh my friend and she had a vision of me and um she said that I was an exit guy and I said what does that mean and she elaborated uh that I am always looking for the exit in any situation and basically what that she said I saw you jumping from mountaintop to mountaintop without having to deal with the the valleys oh wow and I was like whoa I was like you you just described me holy that's a good friend yeah and um she knows me well um was and that was from a very loving place yeah yeah yeah but she wanted she wanted to sit you down and we're very close that's a that's I've actually never heard that that term user that's it like that I hadn't either that's pretty deep yeah I I didn't know what to do I mean I you know I and everything was on the table I mean do I need to go to treatment you know like we're you know rehab or whatever I was open to anything I have friends I mean and that's another thing we can talk about like um I have a lot of sober friends yeah and I I remember uh my parents' generation sobriety really wasn't a thing yeah do you remember having like being at dinner parties and your parents' friends being like just shit face I'm originally from Dublin Ireland I mean that was just like that's that's never mind yeah it was just yeah we were at when we were like like as long as I can remember before we we emigrated like if you could put you know money up on the bar like you were in the you were in the pubs like as a child and like it's at the early hours of the morning you've been to Ireland yeah right so um you know the the baran would come out and the spoons and the and the and the you know the fiddle and someone would you'd be there till two but you'd be sleep on you know your mom's shoulder or in a bar you know and it would be it would it literally would be just part of the culture. And in a sense I think there's a good part of that too because there wasn't this like when I turned 19 I had to like one out and like try everything. Like I sort of I grew up around it so it didn't really like impress me. I was like it was like okay but I I'll be honest with you I've struggled with all sorts of things with like with alcohol and stuff. Like there's there's it's in it's in my genes. I have to keep myself in shape.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yes and it gets scary sometimes like well I need to you know because it just bites you and you're like oh man I need I and it it compounds on itself because and so that's why it's a bad couple months and you're because you feel shame or guilt and then you're like well the only way to get out of this in my brain is to have another one and then another one and another one.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Because it because you're like and I if I just want to relax I want to have a drink. And what I really especially with my dad when my dad passed away I was like in a horrible place and I didn't realize how bad I was um until I had friends that were like dude we're worried about you and and and I remember you know my wife being like would your dad what would your dad say to you right now and that wrecked me. I was like he's like this he's not she was my wife was like who died that day not you and then I was like I was like oh man I was like uh yeah so and I I I went and got help and stuff and you know I I feel like now I'll do my I always do my Christmas to St. Patrick's Day of like no drinking where I you know I last important yeah I'm gonna I'm I'm really yeah it's really like it's taking time off take a time off and then you know we have like our minute like we're cut off like after two two drinks and we're yeah and and and just it it's as I always say to my wife or just other people I'm like if I can't have two drinks and and stop yeah that's that then I then I shouldn't be doing it. Yeah. And I've had things like that where I have the two and I'm like oh man I just want one and I forget that voice goes away yeah until the morning. Yes. And it's a scary thing. Yep. So oh yeah I've got to constantly sort of keep myself in check and and especially with kids and and what I you know they're there's they're looking observing me all the time and I never want I want to I want them to think I'm their hero for as long as possible.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Yeah you know that's really powerful you say that because that's true and I know um I have friends and family that you know the wives are like he he can't do you can't do that like you know the kids were hadn't been hadn't been put to bed yet you know and you're a little tipsy and they pay attention they're very perceptive yeah they're very perceptive. Now when you got to uh uh to Costa Rica you there was something I heard about like the machine what is the machine okay I ran online of one of your your things you were talking I mean I was like I need to ask you about this yes yes so um they they uh you pile in with this bus and you don't know anybody very very So you knew nobody nobody oh wow oh so you're just you booked you're you're gone by yourself wow it was a solitary proceeding were you terri were you terrified I was nervous and ex and and somewhat excited to see what what would come of this and um good for you man and you know they they say down there um the only way to grow is to make yourself uncomfortably comfortable yeah and just sort of do something that's a little off the wall and that's how you how you progress. But yeah so I get there and they they they butter you up a little bit um you know the breathing exercise is very kumbaya you know you cracking jokes on fiber well so that we did yoga and I I don't know anything about yoga I actually do like yoga now because of that yeah um but this this sturdy looking dude and I are in the back of the room and we are not good and we're tripping over ourselves and we start laughing and I start talking to him and and uh I'm like what what's up man you know and he's like a Mike and um former SEAL team six guy and um I was like get out of here what the hell and I was like who are you here with and he's like well see that guy over there Zanjay he's um a 10 time world champion jujitsu finder and I was like what we're going to the jungle jig drugs yeah and um and then I was like what what's the deal he's like well our friend is here documenting it he's the editor in chief of Sports Illustrated and men's journal and all this stuff great guy and so he was there um they were doing like a small little documentary like a and uh I was like oh good for you guys and then they were like have lunch with us and they were like uh and and Mike was like I know who you are because my wife watches Bravo I was like oh cool awesome and they were like do you want to be a part of this documentary and I I said let me think about it because I went down there with no intentions of any fanfare so to speak and then I thought look who I'm in the company of like I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with these dudes any old day. So that was pretty cool. And I did a you know did a little camera work with them. But anyway so the thing starts first night they they they you have like instructions like light instructions and it's to ask who have I become that's what you asked the first night. So very much got stripped down to the studs on the first night. And you're are you all sharing amongst each other no you are not allowed to talk to anybody or touch anybody. And if you're there with a friend or a spouse yeah you are you're demanded to go far away okay because it's you never know what someone might be going through. Don't interrupt basically fair enough. And um so I had a lot of visions that first night one of which I I'll share briefly I saw a uh amusement park machine where the swings hang down. So did they give you the stuff at the little shot glass yeah and it's like a purple sludge not very appetizing. Yeah and then you go to your mattress you have a pillow mattress blanket and a barf bucket and they um and they say okay um relax for uh you know an hour plus and we'll do the second cup and by the way you can get up and walk out there's a bonfire in a huge in a pretty sizable lawn with like 15 hammocks which is and so I spent a lot of time outside and on the hammocks staring at the fire but anyways uh won't get into too much details but I saw a uh that a swing uh a amusement park swing where all the swings hang down and it goes around and around and the people are laughing and it was people I knew and loved in the swings. And then I looked closer and I was the pole. And so there I was and if I wanted my conclusion was you have to like make leaps of logic which I'm I'm pretty good at and I was if I want to live this amusement park life I have to be sturdy I have to be reliable or else everything will fly off and and my friends and family and loved ones will fly into oblivion which of course isn't true but but it is yeah but the like there's more at stake than be rooted in something yeah there's more at stake than just your happiness or your whims or whatever. And I don't have a family but but but friends are family to me too yeah uh and I of course my family family but I don't have kids and wife but um anyway so that was pretty heavy and we're and then the second night I um the shaman I went through this whole thing about want and and wanting more and why do I want more and I was on I was tearing myself apart just like like literally she flew inside of me and was untangling all these webs and confronting all these these explain that for the people that don't know what that is like it's made from a root and a leaf in the Amazon. It's been around for centuries thousands of years and the villagers do it to gain clarity or um and it's just like a sacred ceremony so there's a shaman and I'm tearing myself apart my navy SEAL friend he goes man I saw you last night I wanted to help you but you were you were writhing around fucking hell yeah you know cussing and I was on the ground outside on the lawn just like tearing myself apart and that's when you you felt that you'd gotten inside yes and then you throw up or or go out the other end and and it you purge and then it's like so it was want and need and and and that that applies to a lot of things you just with a cookie monster yeah to a cookie monster and you you know what do what does one man need and and it's all inside of you you don't need any externalities you know and so that was powerful and then I wrote on my chest follow I was messed up but you know I was out there and then drew an arrow to my heart and I was I I and in the night I was like why did I do that? Like you know and then I spent the next day what does it mean to follow your heart what does it mean to follow your heart what does it mean to follow your heart and I was shown I was shown um I went the next night it was very powerful and that's the night that I was cut open I I was above myself and my heart was exposed and there like people not people but there was like a force merging my heart and flipping it around and my soul with I I was all watching from above. Yeah it was wild and then I got and then I got led down a hallway and um and a door opens and there is this ornate machine and it it all cylinders all like spaghetti spinning around and feeding into a mainframe and in those cylinders were memories uh deceased and you can see clear yeah and it's all feeding it all it's my life and the at least the important parts and spinning around and feeding into this thing and I was like is this the universe is this just my internal makeup is and um super powerful and then the next day I said to the staff member yeah you know I got cut open oh you had surgery that's good that that's a thing yeah and I was like then I got led into a room you saw the machine I was like what there's a thing called the machine that people see I mean it's not a coincidence it's pretty wild isn't it so that from a bunch of my Navy SEAL buddies that had have uh done all the things they all describe very similar things without knowing yeah what like like without talking to each other and then even people over the years have all described like these beings or did you did you did you have that experience with any beings or anything like that or I did but the last night I was with my um best friend's older brother who had passed of cancer when I was younger and I couldn't go to the funeral I was in Buenos Aires and I just cried and cried and cried and that how long has it been since you cried like up until that point? I cried quite a bit yeah I'm a crier yeah yeah yeah um I mean not you're sensitive guys yeah well yeah and I'm moved easily you know a lot of a lot of cinema and and and things like that will make me cry. Um did CLT make you cry? Yes everybody um so yeah um so he just told me he was like he was very into the outdoors so I was laying in a hammock so it all made sense and uh he came to me and and he said where have you been it's good to see you and I was like oh I was like wow he goes tell my brother I'm proud of him oh because he was his brother his brother my best friend's little brother had died of crib death and then you know very sad a long time ago I don't remember it right and and then um the the oldest brother died of cancer so he was the only one left and he came back to Hilton Head and and took over the family restaurant has made it even more successful than it was before he's got three kids a wife a what beautiful house on the intercoastal yeah and then they're they're they're family to me and so yeah I just started crying and crying because I I'm proud of him too my friend like he did the he did it right he did the right thing whatever that is did you have that moment with him when you got back to tell him what was that like it was pretty powerful. That gets me all yo he he can tear up too and um about his brother and um just all powerful stuff.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Do you remember how his brother looked and everything like that? Yeah was it the same or did he was he looked different it was the same. It was the same well so yeah I always have dreams about my dad it took me forever to find him but when we meet we always meet in the same place it's like we're up at this like mountaintop and it kind of looks down and there's a bench and he's always just sitting there and he's like hey son and we have these great conversations but he'll always come at when I'm in like my back's against the wall I'm having a really tough time and he'll appear for the longest time I would I would see him and he would like I'd see him and then people like was we were always at like a train station and then people would go by and I'd lose him I was like Dad and then finally after my daughter was born I found him and he was just at this bench so every time I like if I I and I'll know where I am in my dream I'm like oh I'm about to see Dad and I'm like I know and I'll go up and like and I'll sit down and we'll sit there for and it always makes me nuts like I'll wake up the dog will jump in the bed or I'm like oh I want to go back yeah um um and and I I really believe that there's there's another connection there's another part of us that because of technology because of what we're constantly surrounded time that we're just not aware so like getting out into nature and opening ourselves to those things.

SPEAKER_02 42:34

For for you at the end Well I had a quickly I had um there was a uh Marine Corps drill sergeant ex-drill sergeant there Caesar what's up Caesar great guy he was in Paris Island I I grew up in Hilton head we used to go fishing in Port Royal Sound for um all sorts of things uh cobia and we'd hear pop pop pop pop pop pop and that was them that was them and uh and I then my dad took me to took took a bunch of us um poorly behaved boys to to get scared straight at uh boot camp and sort of did you do a boot camp? No we were like 12 but we kind of did the tour and it was all very vivid memory and be and and really cool. And um so I was talking to him about that and so we became friendly. And then one morning after like two or three he comes to me and he he hugs me and he's crying and he's he's just like I haven't you know my father wasn't all that great and I've had my bouts with thinking that I'm I was I'm not the best kind of father to my son but I was with my father who's deceased and a young version of me and my current version of my young son and we we all got together and he hugged and cried and and uh we I made some promises to myself and and all and I was I forgave my dad I was just like wow wow

SPEAKER_01 44:04

Three pillars of discipline spirit, mind, body. In that order, that right there is the foundation of a company I started called Born of Discipline. It's incredibly important to me, this company incorporates my faith, the lessons I learned from my father on discipline, pain from regret, or pain from discipline is something my dad always said to me. And I've incorporated that into my life, and I want to share it with you. Go check it out at bornofdiscipline.com. Do you find with I I think this part of my life too, I've I found that like forgiveness is such an important thing not to forgive someone else, but forgiving your yourself. And like it wasn't I went on a hike with my church and it was like a four-day hike in the woods. It was the first time I had ever done anything like this before. Um and uh when I was out there, I had to, you know, really face some things that I didn't I forgot about. And there was no ayahuasca of something like that, but it it was I had to forgive myself for certain things that have happened that I was I h I held on to, and it I felt like a weight when I came down from the mountain. I felt like a weighted. Did you feel when you at the end of it like you could breathe properly or like you Yeah, I mean it was yeah, I mean that's the thing they tell you.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Hey, um we're you you still have to practice what you learned. It's called integration back in the back in the real world. And I I I didn't it it stuck with me and it still is with me, but I I gotta go back and I've gotta take it more methodically, I feel like you'll go back and do it again. Yes, of course. Yeah. Wow. I'm looking right now at uh sometime in the winter to doing it. And uh you get you know, it I don't know. I don't know what'll come out of it, but um, I think it's uh the there's a lot of uh like Kelly Slater, for example, who I'm a big hero of mine, a surfer.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Yeah, he's a bad.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

He um he's on the board there. No way, yeah. So he goes every every year or two. I I've actually run into him and talked to him about it. And um, like Andre 3000 from Outcast was there. Not not when I was there, but but not and um I just think it's incredibly instructive to to kind of go in and and see what you see. Now there's one thing that I said was interesting. You might think you know why you're here or why you want to be here, and you could very well leave with a completely different perspective of of things that you've yeah that were shown to you.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

So um that's I feel like it's like like have you do paint at all? No, no, so the times that I've I have painted something or even talking to some painting, it's like when you start out out with like a blank canvas and you you especially like oil and you have this idea of what you're gonna paint, yeah. It takes a couple months or whatever because of drawing and coming back to it, it's constantly changing because of your experience, I believe, in life. That how you saw that canvas that day, and then a week later something happened. So your perspective and how you look at that changes then well, add so what you think of this blank canvas, what your intention is to paint at the beginning, become something else, but that something else was always what it was gonna be, which is like such a you're like, What? How did it's amazing? It's a cra crazy i it's like I feel in in and maybe you're in the same same boat as it's like where the times in your life where you're you're holding on because you think this is the direction you want you need to go, yeah, is do you feel like you get the most push back sometimes?

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Yeah, I do. And uh so you very much have to slow down and and let go, you know, follow your heart. Yeah, follow your heart. And what I thought, follow I said, what where's my heart want to go? It's like what the fuck? And um it turns out what I came to the conclusion was um to chase your passions and on and and show all the gratitude to the people that have gotten you to this point right now, um, and how lovely they've been and supportive. And don't you you must honor them and then honor yourself. And chasing your passions, fly fishing, surfing, hunting, these are which is all being super still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and and being one with nature, harnessing nature's power. Yeah, I mean, surfing's intensely like that. Yeah. And um the and gosh, I guess that's it, right? Like just being uh, you know, look at this beautiful place we live in, you know. So lucky gratitude.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Yeah, gratitude, I think, is is a big thing. You know, I always talk about my friend RD, it was all around the same time with when my dad passed away. And he was like, dude, you're really negative, bro. Like you're and I read you just talked to him recently about some things, and like my little guru, and he's like, dude, make sure, like, wake up in the morning before you start every day. He's like, if you're not doing this, you know, uh he's like, and it'll change your life. And this is a couple years ago. He's like, before you grab your phone before anything, just say and write down ten things that you're grateful for, and then say it out loud, and then keep repeating it for like ten minutes. And uh notice a little thing. Thank you for the lawn, thank you. It doesn't matter what it is before you look at your phone or anything, because just allow the body to wake up and allow your your your intention to be like, oh, uh look out, look what I have, as opposed to waking up, looking at your phone, letting the phone dictate the pace that you gotta move at, you see a fucking comment or something, read something that sets you off. You're some some bullshit about whatever that means nothing to what you have to accomplish that day. It's uh out of your control completely. And it it it when you those little things that you do that you're able to control how you enter the day, when I practice those, I feel like the day starts off way better. That's great I'm flawed though. Like I will go, I'll wake up and I'll like start the day busy and you know, but it's like that got constant reminder of like how do I how do I just slow down, take a beat? Because the times that I do that, I feel like I'm a better dad, I'm a better husband. And then the consumption of that, I mean, and you you like you doing you do reality show and and it's like it's it's like you've let the world into you. How has that been now like because you're Shep, like you're the guy that you know, how I met you, like you're the guy that you know you've got this great skill where you can bring everybody together. Yeah, you bring great people together, you're a connector, which is a skill in itself, yeah. Um and you bring great people together. They're like like I love it. I love it, yeah. Um, how is that sort of Malcolm Gladwell wrote about that?

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Did he? Yeah, yeah. And he um and you know, uh the being a connector is definitely a thing. Um it's a huge thing. There was, and I'll just do a brief, he he said um Paul Revere, the British are coming. Yeah, he was a spectacular, interesting character, and he knew everybody, and everybody knew him. And if someone else had done made that famous ride, it wouldn't have been taken with such gravity, maybe. Maybe, yeah, and so he was the perfect person for that because he was a connector. So yeah, anyway, just a proof.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

How is re-entering into going back?

SPEAKER_02 51:25

Yeah, uh man, uh was it intense? Yeah, I mean uh it's getting harder uh for me. Um just because I don't have the stomach for some of the things, I feel like anymore. Um and essentially it's if I'm trying to work on myself, but I'm going around casting stones and passing judgment, that's not how the karmic work universe works. I'm sorry, it isn't, you know. And you're you've been how many years has it been now? Uh 12 seasons. That's insane. Insane. Yeah, coming from you. I'm sure you've you can relate to it.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

I'm the longest series I did CSI New York was nine seasons. Yeah. You know, and that's a big challenge. I mean, like CSI New York, people had kids, people got married, people got divorced. Yes. Some people like people that die. Like it's like it's a it's almost a decade of your life. 12 years though, dude. That's like you're like law and order.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

You know, it's like it's actually been 14 years just because of the timing and and the filming schedule and stuff. So I've been in that world. And you know, I've tried to insulate myself. I don't read comments, uh, I don't read blogs.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Um but look at the platform you have now, though.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Yeah. And my problem is um I I I should be way more cognizant that everybody has a camera in their hand. You know what I mean? And I'm just so trusting, and I don't want to live a careful life, but maybe, maybe it'll behoove me to do so. Maybe if I have someone to live carefully for, that would be nice.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Yeah. Now, the the the sort of the man you are now sitting here, to the boy that was like in Hilton Head growing up, like if you could talk to him right now, what would you say? To the boy, yeah, to you to you as a child, knowing what's ahead. With the perspective you have after this ayahuasca.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

I mean, honestly, I wouldn't want him to change much, you know, because everything happened exactly the way it should have, you know. And I don't know if we want to go down the free will or absence of uh wormhole. I've I've read a lot about it. Yeah, and I've also heard the the argument that we all want to think we're in control. I mean, that's you know, and but the argument against that is that every little circumstance and instance in your life builds to right now. And there's a theory that if you go back in time uh and you we were able to do you would make the exact same decision. You know what I mean? It's scary to think about. It is, it's interesting to think about.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Yeah, it's like I I I put it through this, I got this really deep conversation one day with someone when I was I felt like I was stuck, and you know, I I was like, I I felt like it was like I was reading a chapter in a book and I kept forgetting like details of the book. And every time I go to chapter two, I had to go back to chapter one because I couldn't remember what was happening in chapter one. But the second chapter one clicked for me, and I was like, oh, this is what it's about. Then I got to go to chapter two. Yeah, so I was like, I feel like life is in these things. Well, always stay in this one chapter, we can't get out until we're like, oh, I I get it now, like I'm ready to go to the next chapter. Yeah, and it's like those things. Do you do you, in a sense, feel like you you're just about to you're you've you're starting this new chapter in your life?

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Yeah, I want to. I want to. I see the I see it from you. I see a path. Yeah, I just uh I want to I want to take it, but I you you can't just I can't do it alone. I mean I can, but it my the path involves family and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 55:04

Yeah, I remember sitting down and talking a couple times where you've had these ideas about writing or you've had great ideas about shows and stuff, but I remember even talking about books and that but the fact that you've actually done and wrote a book, dude, it's not an easy thing to do. Two books. Yeah, I mean it's like but to be able to to do that, bro. That's like like do you give yourself some grace and like pat yourself on the back?

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Like to uh I don't take compliments all that well. I get all bashful and shy. Um but yeah, I know, but and then I'm I'm hard on myself because I do write this book, right? And and it's about Were you scared about releasing this one? No, no, I wasn't. I mean, I did have a moment where I thought my parents weren't talking to me, which would be completely out of uh left field. Yeah, and it turns out they their phones were screwed up, like there's no Wi-Fi, but I thought they read the book and were like disappointed in me. Yeah. But uh Yeah, I mean, look, I wrote this book about you know confronting yourself and trying to make difficult changes, and and then I go out and do some, you know, have a bad night or two, and I'm like, you you're are you a fucking hypocrite? Because there's nothing I hate more, you know, yeah, and uh, you know, someone who says there's something and is not that, you know what I mean? And um so I think the biggest difference between me before and after is before I was very much like, hey dude, you know, uh it's a beautiful disaster, isn't it? You know. Um, if you if you want to make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs, right, guys.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Beautiful disaster. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

And um, and now I'm like, okay, it's not that funny at all, really. And oh man, you know, what you have uh you know, more is at stake and and you're getting older, and what you know, so I'm you just gotta be do you feel like with the So I don't want to spike the football. I I read this um I read this wonderful poem by uh called If by Rudyard Rudy Rudyard Kipling, and he says if in one part he says, if you can treat triumph and disaster, those two impostors just the same, well, then you've got something figured out. Yeah. So uh, you know, that sort of isn't interesting. Like be hey, you're gonna be up, you're gonna be down, but don't don't worry, don't change much, or don't get wallow in your highs and lows. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Do you find because I know I have the the more focused and disciplined I become, the the louder the sirens get to like the more temptation is like like people just want to like in a sense, like like there's like a to to be people want to throw you off. Like it's like there's yeah, and what whether if it's a people or it's like there's just there's something that's like I don't want you to be on point right now. I want you to be a fuck up. Like yeah, and I feel like that when that's oh man, it's like that the the more focused and the more like intention you have of finding who it is, there's these this other thing, like, no, no, we're gonna keep you here in the darkness.

SPEAKER_02 58:18

Yeah, well, I I I write about this afterwards. I went to Canawan, which is down in the islands with a couple of great friends, and we were the Soho House and and beautiful sand beaches, and uh it was I think it was New Year's Eve, and I become friends with all the staff. I was doing karaoke, and like the whole place was just like, oh my god, this guy. And then the staff were like, come to our locals party. Like it was just just local. So me and my uh friend Allison jumped in with the car with them, driving up the hill, and we're definitely the only white faces there. And I was twirling around some girls, and and and the guys were all laughing at me and and making fun of me. And uh the next morning I was like, oh man, did I show my ass last night? You know, and and I get to the airport and I'm you know pretty hung over. And the the one screw, oh it shut up, look at it, and he comes up and gives me a big hug. And I just had this epiphany, like, okay, if you can harness it, yeah, everything's great, you know. Like you got good energy and you put it out there, you make people laugh and and all that stuff, but um, it can turn on a dime, and then um, you know, you just gotta know where that dime is, or please, please, please avoid it. And I think part of that is having someone to to to retire to or for. Do you do you have a North Star in your in your life that someone that's been I mean my mom and dad, and you know, a lot a lot of that nature stuff falling your heart, a lot of those uh fishing at least was with dad and and brother. So um there's that's no coincidence. So yeah, I mean, I would hate to embarrass them, you know, but I'm I'm sure I have in the past. Yeah. But I'm getting a little long in the tooth.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

I mean, there's there's there is nothing about nothing better than you know, it's so funny with that the memories about how you say with like the chop chick pancakes or like the those little memories that you have, you know, with your parents that are so and I you I was very fortunate I had a very tight family, and I realized just in the conversations how rare that is. Like I had a an amazing father, one of my best friends, amazing mother. Um to have those moments in my life too that I can go back to, but it's nothing makes me feel more like when my dad would I get to call him if I book something or tell my parents on the phone that I got a job or they see their pride, you know. Um there is something in you as a that's always a child that's always like just that, yeah. Them just be like, good job, or like it's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

I hear secondhand from some of my dad's friends, like he talked like, hey, he's really proud of you. He talks about you all the time. How does it make you feel? Feels great. Yeah, feels great.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Because some people never get hear that, they never hear that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

Well, and I I came from very loving, very loving, but it was also very waspy, and not a whole lot of feelings were were brought up. And if it was something was a little uh uh uncomfortable, it was swept under the rug. Yeah, and so I actually after I did the medicine, I uh I called my parents shortly afterwards and said, Hey, um, we don't say I love you very much. You know, I know that you love me and I know that I love you, but and I it certainly don't say it as much to my brother and sister. And so I was like, we should change that, you know, just on a baseline level. Yeah, and we have, we have.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

And was that kind of cool?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

Yeah, it is cool. It is cool, and I I like saying it. Yeah, yeah. I always knew I was loving it. Follow your heart, man. Yeah, it's like yeah, it's just yeah, man. Mike, SEAL team Mike, yeah, he said, um, vulnerability is the new masculinity. It really is. And I said, Man, that's beautiful. I'm gonna use that. And I did write it down in the book.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Yeah, it's true because for so long, man, you know, you know, we've been told just to like push it down, not talk about it. Yeah, and that's weak.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:30

Well, that's a sign of weakness, which is ridiculous, because then it boils inside you, and that's when abuse happens. Yeah, and that's when a lot of trauma can be from that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

And and I think and I think within that, it's like to let someone know that you're hurting or that you're going through something, and I just have just to talk it out. Because when you're able to like just talk it, like like put it into the universe and not just get it out of your head and can be open with someone, whoever that is, it again, it's it just feels like actually that wasn't as bad as it. Yeah, it like that that spin cycle your brain's on.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Thank God. I like in you two, we can't keep our mouths shut. So I I I overshare probably with people who are probably like, look, I don't know you that well.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Most people in Georgia are like exactly you're hugging the pillow of the colour.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

It's important. It's it because if it's if it's if it's inside you, whether it's shame or disappointment, it can become a very toxic cocktail. Yeah. And ask Anthony Bourdain's friends and family, like guy had it all. What the what? Yeah, you know, hit show, everyone respected him, literally everybody loved and respected him.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Do you find with with like where you are now on this journey and sort of what you've discovered there, that maybe that's part of your calling now to just to be more open about what masculinity is, yeah, and being because you're a sensitive guy, because you're a life party, but that to that's a leadership role you choose to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

I think I that's cool that you said that because I, you know, if this can help just one person, you know that that's saying, but um, I think it could help. I do. And I think it could help a lot of men, you know, and uh and we're all we're all we're also flawed.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Anybody that it that can't admit that they're flawed and we're just trying to then are they're charlatans. Yeah, yeah. We're just trying to, we're just I'm just trying to, every day I'm trying to figure it out. Yeah. And I don't it doesn't matter what book I read, it's just I'm still winging it. I'm still I don't know what I'm doing half the time. And I'm hoping I'm making the best decision in that moment. Yeah, and and I hope that it that any decision that I made is gonna be the best for my family. And whatever's going on in my head, I hope that I I I can fight through it. But the times that I've kept it inside, it's been bad. Yeah. Like because it just I'm not not communicating. And I think in my mind, no, I don't want them to know because they're gonna worry then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

You know, as opposed to their once you get it out there, then you can really work on it. Yeah, because that means other people are like, okay, I'm gonna help you. Yeah. Even if it's just a general encouragement, maybe a little tough love. Yeah, I think it's important.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Um before we go, I always ask everybody uh their favorite quote that they live by or something that they they refer to all the time. You've said a couple that I love, but yeah, what what's another one that you that's sort of been like uh a step in your life? Uh Tomorrow is promised to no one. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:26

Yeah. Where is that from? I don't know. It's just a saying. I like it. It's true. And and I write in there, To Thine Own Self Be True, which is Shakespeare. It is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

Yeah. Well, dude, I really appreciate uh you stopped by know you've got a bunch of other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:39

Yep, I gotta run, I gotta go see mom and dad and little Craig. I'm getting in the car right now. That's my dog.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

I I love it, man. And I do appreciate it, man. I and I I it's great to see you have this little glow about you now, and and I hope this journey that you're on, you know, like you said, I hope whether it's one person or a thing, but whatever that gift that you have with you know bringing people together and being able to connect the room and and to make people laugh and to have this perspective now of what what's going on inside you. I mean, this is the new chapter for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

I really enjoyed this, AJ. And uh we we we probably you're so busy with your fan. We we should sit down more often.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:14

Anytime, brother. Yeah, I really appreciate it, man. And uh, so where can people get your book?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Um, Sheprosofficial.com. That's how you can get it right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

The coolest cover.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:25

Yeah, and then it'll and then and uh it'll be on Amazon uh in a week or two, and so that'll be another way to get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:32

Well, we'll put this up. This will probably go uh on Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

Okay, bud.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

Well, here's here's for you. I want you to sign it. Yes, of course. Yeah, well, uh I appreciate it. And everybody, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the AJ Buckler Show. Mr. Shep Rose, appreciate you, buddy. Peace. I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, and I feel like I say it every time I just love doing podcasts. I just don't know where these go, and that's kind of the journey. And when you get into banters back and forth with someone that is like Chevy, just our minds are um, it's really good. But I again I I can't thank him enough for being so honest and open and um so true. Try that for a little bit. Just say yes to everything. Don't say no for the rest of this week until unfiltered Friday. Say yes to everything. And if you're true, that that means you have to say yes to me right now. So say yes, and I'll see you Friday.