SPEAKER_01 0:00

The ghost facers are literally only characters that didn't die. Hey man, I'm in I'm in on the ghost facers. These these bumbling characters, Ed and Harry, reunite and fall, fall into the world again of and not know why they're there. Dan's on a hunting trip and he hasn't been seen in three days. I am incredibly excited about today's guest. To many, he is known as the silent architect to two of the biggest genre shows in the last 20 years: Supernatural and the Boys. I call him Uncle Phil, but he goes by Phil Segretia. Phil on this show, him and I get into some conversations, some potentials for the ghost faces return. I kid you not. There's something brewing in them. I'm very excited to welcome to the show Mr. Phil Segratia.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Welcome to the AJ.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, it's great to see you. It's like if Santa Claus was a biker, it would be fucking like he was like a hell's angel Santa Claus. It would be perfect. Somebody said a warped Colonel Sanders. I'm just like, yeah. Dude, you would crush that at Halloween. You gotta do it. You gotta do it. You gotta do it. Well, it's uh it's great to have you on the show. I know all the supernatural fans and the boys fans, and uh they're gonna freak out over this because uh you are basically the silent architect of so many hit shows. Um and for you, like it's like for easy for me as an actor to be like, oh hey, like you know, I'm an actor and like that's what you do on a show. It's like how is it for you when you explain to people like you know you've basically been uh a part and instrumental in in in uh the look and feel of uh quite possibly two of the biggest shows ever on television. I know you hear me talking about the ghost bed, but let me tell you about the ghost bed pillows. The pillows, they're the icing on the cake. That's right, they're the D and the Daddy. Because when you put your face down onto this pillow, it is so cool and it molds perfectly to the back of your neck. So while the ghost bed, the zero gravity is helping out the lower lumbar, you got this pillow that's helping your C4 and C5, taking away any tension it has. That's why you can go off into Dreamland. Get eight hours, wake up looking like a child. Go to ghostbed.com forward slash buckley and type in Buckley B-U-C-K-L-E-Y to get yourself ten percent off. That's what you get for watching the show. Three pillars of discipline spirit, mind, body. In that order. That right there is the foundation of a company I started called Born of Discipline. It's incredibly important to me. This company incorporates my faith, the lessons I learned from my father on discipline, pain from regret, or pain from discipline is something my dad always said to me. And I've incorporated that into my life, and I want to share it with you. Go check it out at bornofdiscipline.com.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Um for a long time I used to just tell people I was an editor, even though I was an executive producer on the show. I would just say, Yeah, I'm an editor, just so they wouldn't ask more questions. Yeah. And my wife said, you know, you shouldn't do that because you do a you work hard and you deserve what you get. I'm like, okay, that's deserve what you get. I'm afraid of that one. Um, but uh, you know, it's just uh something that yeah, I started when I was young. It was kind of like um tell good stories, have fun doing it, work with fun people as much as you can. The business, you know, show respect and you'll get respect back. Um, you know, and Kripke and I are kindred in a lot of ways. We both grew up in the Midwest. He's from Toledo, I'm from Detroit. And I think our parents ingrained in us uh work hard, put your nose to the you know, grindstone and go. Um and be happy with what you're getting. And every day I walked on to the uh Warner Brothers lot when we were doing supernatural, you know, I look at the uh the water tower and you know, smile because I was one of the lucky ones that got to, you know, be there. So I feel very fortunate on what I'm doing and what I've done, but you know, it's taken a lot a lot of hours and a lot of you know crazy nights, as you know, you know how it works. Yeah. Um but I think I'm made for this, so it doesn't feel like it always feels like it's fun to me, even though even the worst days are like still not that bad.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Were you always were you always a storyteller?

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Um I think so. I was a projectionist in high school at a movie theater that's still around at one screen, and I was I started paying attention kind of how editing and did did you have to did you have to do that like mid mid-show like tight? That's a lot of things. Every 20 minutes, yeah. If you look up in the right corner of the screen, there's a dot at six seconds, and then there's another dot at one second. And the first dot is you turn the other machine on because it takes six seconds to get it up to speed. Whoa. And then there's a there's a a gate on each side. So this one's open, and you hit the you hit a switch, you know, pull down this Frankenstein switch kind of thing, and this gate would shut and this gate would open automatically. So it was like one, two, and then the other, you know, and then the sound would switch over too. So you'd have to do and on the one second dot, you'd go click and they'd transfer over. Um there was a many, and back in that day, you the every you did this every 20 minutes, and the reels were I have one around here somewhere. Um, you know, they held 20 minutes of film, and they all had bands on them to they got bicycled to the next theater up the town. And there was one time somebody from the previous theater put the band for real three around real five. Yeah, and put real five where real three should be, you know, that yeah. So I showed them the first time I showed the movie, I didn't, I've never seen the movie, I forget what it was, but it was like I switched over and it was like, wow, this is a weird cut into this scene, you know, because the when you change, it's usually at a scene break, like night to day or something like that. It's never in the middle of a scene, ever. And so it was just so weird. I think people came out of the movie theater because it went real one, real five, real three, real two, real four, or something like that. So it was like whatever what like whatever acid I took really messed me up. Like it's like uh I did a Tarantino movie before Tarantino made a movie. Um anyway, so yeah, it got me started and it got me kind of paying attention. I also had the um very small town in northern Michigan. I graduated with 75 other kids or 74. And uh cable TV at the time was coming into town, and back then the um FCC or whatever it was for cable, you had to have a public access channel. And I ran a public access TV station in my high school when I was a senior. We had a van, we had three cameras, we had two reel-to-reel V VCR VTRs, and we had a thing called a modulator. And if we hooked into the cable system we and hit the switch, we were live. And they let me do that. I was like, okay, sure. So we did concerts and girls basketball and ice hockey, like the little kid midget ice hockey is what we called it back then. Um, you know, and it was just like uh I fell in love with it because it was just fun to create imagery and sort of tell a story. I didn't really get into narrative storytelling until I moved into LA. Later I was doing mostly documentaries. So I was a cameraman for a while, did all that, and traveled around the Midwest with a camera on my shoulder. Um and then moved to LA and and then got shifted into editing and and then shifted into narrative scripted television.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

I always I always love working with directors that were editors because you you you're they're cut they're they're you're working through the scene and they all they've already cut it and they're like they know what they need, and you move it moves so much quicker. Like you're like, this we're gonna be here, here, and I'm this is gonna make sense on this, and you're like, oh, I see what you know it the way that I feel editor directors um or directors that were editors, it they're able to communicate to you exactly how this is going and where everything is in this big mess of um script that you're doing because as for the audience at home, when you get a script, it's not like we're shooting it in sequence, it's all over the place. So some people are like, what is happening here? And you're like, man, but you're always able to like, no, this is here and this is here. So did you realize that was like such a strength of yours going into that, being able to think that way?

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Yeah, I think so. I it it gets you into trouble and out of trouble because as an editor, you kind of understand, you know, I would do a shot list, and then at the end of the day, it was more of a game of like how many shots did we actually do from the shot list? Yeah. Because once you do your first shot, whether it's a big wide shot or an intimate shot or a tracking shot or a drone, whatever it is that you're doing, it sets the table for the scene of what happens next. Because, and you know, the way we were working with the ghost facers, it was it was kind of like, let's make this as we go, because it's gotta be in this documentary format. So we kind of were trying stuff without, but once I knew, once we got one shot, I knew what other shots would go with that shot and how I know where to place the camera. And some days that gets you into trouble because you you're trying to bite off more than you can, you know, the time limit. But at the same time, it really it does help, I think. I think when I was an editor, I scared a bunch of actors because I would come up to them like at a rap party or something and act like I knew them, right? Because I did. I saw them before and after take and cut, which is when you see the person, right? And if I came up talking to them, they're like, Who is this guy? And let's get security out here right now. Because I don't know him, but I felt like I already knew them because again, you see him you see actors before action. There's a there's a moment there where they're getting ready to go. Yeah. You know, and it's uh it's you know, part of the microscope.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

It is, yeah. You guys see all the all the in-betweens and the mic recordings and all the stuff of like what because it's like you you could be going through anything, and then it's like as you're getting, you've got to then like you've got to lock in. And like then it's like and they cut, and then you're going back to things. And at the time, like you like you could be dealing with something like on your phone with like your wife or the thing, and then you're like and it's they're like, and we need you in action, and you go and you're and it's cut, and it's like back in. So you're getting it, you're nobody kids. The sound isn't killing your mic, it's like it's recording through the fucking thing. You want to rip it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

Um, we did this thing at Supernatural uh called Shaving People Punting Things. It was a a uh throw off of Jensen's line from the pilot, saving people hunting things. So we called it shaving people punting things. And if you look on Vimeo or YouTube, but mostly Vimeo because there's no ads, it was a love letter from the post-production department to the audience. And we did these videos and we would talk through them. And one of our editors, John Fitzpatrick, did this one, and and they're all up there. You can go to shaving people, punting things, and on Vimeo, and you can find 30 little videos. And what they were were just oddball things from the show. Uh John Fitzpatrick did the one that's called Just Before. And it's it's all this footage of just before the word action, what these actors are doing. And it's actually it's quite fun because you see the preparation coming in and the focus and all this comes right down because once you see action, it goes into that the thing, right? Yeah. So anyway, I uh go for it, go take a look. They're still up. There's like 30 of them. Some of them were the guys, it was so crazy at times. Some of them are, you know, there's a black and white one, there's one that's totally in reverse, and they were all little love promos to the show, but we never put supernatural on it. I think we did one because the CW wanted to do it. They wanted to take it over, and we said, no, this is ours. So uh we like I said, there's like 30 of them, and each year there was a different title card for it, and uh it was it always had to do with the car, and it was just there was a title, and then whatever the editors came up with, and there was a couple that are hilarious because the scene starts, and then somebody messes up, and then Jared and Jensen, you know how they were, yeah. They would start riffing, like still kind of in character, and then makeup people would come in, and all this shit wouldn't fall apart, and then the scene would go back together and they would continue. Yeah, and so there's a couple, there's a there's a lot of outtakey kind of things in there that are quite fun. There's a couple that are there's an outtake on one side, and the other side is still serious. It's a phone conversation, it is hilarious. I forget the name of it. It's uh something about chupacabras. Anyway, take a look, have have the fans go look. It's pretty fun. But um, you know, I think going back to where we were uh the editing, you know, knowing how to get out of things. Uh how if you're gonna do a one or try and find a place in the middle somewhere where you could sneak a B camera, yeah, because maybe in the middle of the wonder the take kind of falls apart, and now you're stuck and you're you know stuck with whatever. So you try and find yourself places to help. So I think I see the edits before maybe others see it. I don't know. I I I think I talk I talk editor, so when we're in the post, I'm in post right now with with Vault Rising with Eric and Paul Greylong, you know, and the editors, and you know, we'll be watching something and something's bumping with Eric or Paul. And I say, what if we just took that middle shot out and put the two together, you know, and blah blah blah, whatever, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. So I think I I think I see the possibilities quickly. So that helps.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah, it's it's amazing too, like when what you think uh because you're so close to it, is like uh we're we're all of a sudden a scene that you love, but someone's like, if you take that scene out, it's gonna play better. You're like, there's and if your first need your graphics like, there's no way we can take that scene out. And then you take it out and you're like, gosh dang, that that actually because the audience is never gonna see that, but they won't know, but we're so we're in it, you're like, that's such a part, and when you take it out, it's it's that's just your own egos loving it, and not it's for the for the purpose of the story to move. It's the b the one, and that's the hardest thing sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 16:18

You're like, no, and it's not but it makes it better.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah. I mean, you have to uh what is it get rid of your babies or something? Yeah, um, you know, I think it does help, like uh, because I'm an editor, there are times when I want to just get on there and and cut, but it's better to have another pair of eyes and ears to look at stuff, you know, and and I think that's part of probably why Kripke keeps me around in post because I'm another set of editing eyes that can come up with I know that when I give a note, I know it'll I know it'll cut together, whether or not it works as a story. You know, and everything everything in my world is based on story. I you know, I don't deal with the budgets and schedules as I mean I do when I'm directing, but that's not my producer part of the world. My part of the world is to tell the story.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

You're your part your part is having fun.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah. I am so fortunate on that side, believe me. I and I'm like, hey, I keep waiting. The imposter syndrome is very, very uh active with me. I'm like, at some point, somebody's gonna tap me on the shoulder and say, Yeah, you know what, we finally got you. You can leave.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, speaking speaking of fun, if I say these three names to you, what is the first thing that flashes in your head? Jensen, Jared, Misha.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Amazed we ever got a show done. Uh, I had the uh great fortune of doing the boys' uh fifth episode this past year where Jared and Misha came to guest star in the boys' world. Is it right back to Ocean Anigans? Oh my god. I did I had him do one first first thing I did, and this is Seth Rogan's there, Kumeel Nanjani. Yeah, uh uh shoot, I'm missing some names. But anyway, it's you know, it was a room full of star. And they came down the steps, and you know, and I I pulled everybody, I pulled the crew together, and I said, Okay, guys, apologize. And they were like, What? I said, apologize to this good, hardworking crew and these actors of your shenanigans that you're about to unveil on them. And everybody's laughing, you know, but we had a good time, it was really fun. I I so enjoyed I was on Supernatural for 14 of the 15 years, yeah. And you know, people had asked me during the run, it's like, why do you keep staying? I'm like, it's so much fun, and it's a family now, and you know, I had a lot of creative freedom where I was sitting because you know, we had a show runner who was Kripke for the first five years, and Sarah, then Jeremy, you know, and it was just kind of like I I had a lot of free reign to be able to tell the stories kind of the way I want. So, and I like that you know, it part of it's comedy, part of it's horror, part of it's action, part of its drama with the boys. But with those three guys, there if they said they were doing something, I'd I'd say, anything I can do to help call me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Is that is that because there's a big when you're on a a show that big, and from my own experience, is like when you have your regular like you there's a moment that happens with someone that you're day in and day out working, but the you've you get you build trust with them all of a sudden. As the actor, you're like, okay, this guy's got my back. Whatever's happening, he's got was there a moment with them that you were able to do something that they're like that was significant when they were like, Phil's got our back.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Um I don't know if it was just cumulative because I I was still around. Okay. Oh, he's back. Okay, all right. I guess we should pay attention to him now.

SPEAKER_03 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Um I don't know. I mean, it it became I became part of the, you know, we were all part of a family very quickly. That's one thing Eric and I think myself are very um very big on creating this family uh as quickly as you can. Now families don't get along all the time, but families are family and you still hug it out at the end, you know. Yeah so yeah, there was always growing pains with the show and all that, but you know, I just think the allowance of having fun was we knew professionally what we needed to do to get the show done, including those including those guys, you know. Uh but we wanted to have fun doing it, and uh it was just one of those uh, you know, the stars aligned, and you know, I think part of that is is you know the Kripke and his vision of it, and then it was Jared and Jensen to start out. If they didn't get along, that show would not have 100%.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

And then you add Misha in, and then what was it like adding his character into the dynamic of the the the the two guys?

SPEAKER_02 21:21

It was it was so weird at the beginning because I mean Eric was hesitant because we had as you should be, as you would be though, like it was more of the bigger picture of we have demons, they're from hell. Well, what's the opposite? That's an angel from heaven. Now he didn't want to get all religion focused at all, maybe faith in yourself or or personal faith, you know, but there's a large history of angels and how angels maneuver and you know walk among us and and all that. So they did a lot of research of angels and And then when they cast Misha, I think what surprised him most was he started with this really low voice and then he realized he had to he had to keep that voice. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't sound like that at all. It was like, hi Misha, how you doing? You know. Um, but I think at the beginning, you know, his entrance was great. I think Kim Manners directed that episode. It was amazing. I think this one of the smarter things we did was to play the wings as shadows. So you didn't have this floppy fake wing floating around in in the she in the scenes. It simplified everything. It's like the wings can be there when we need them and then not have to worry about it. But I think the guys uh encouraged after the first season, maybe two, you know, it was heavy, it was heavily weighted on them being at work all the time. Yeah. So we got Jim Beaver, we got, you know, you guys came back for a few times. Yeah. There was we we built this core of revolving folks that we could bring into this world and keep around, you know, Kim.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I remember when when we showed up and like it was like the boys were on vacation. They're like, I remember Jaron Jensen, like, guys, you're welcome here anytime. You worked like one day of the week, and they're like, like, they're all leaving. They're like, I'm going here, we're going there. They're like, Yeah, I'm like, 'cause you guys want to get a beer like on Friday? Like, dude, we're fucking out of here. Like, we're you guys, you this is your show now. Like, go go have fun. Which is crazy because it's like when you come, like with Travis and I did that first episode when we came back for the the ghost facer thing, it was you never know walking onto somebody else's set when there's like a whole nother show within a show that's happening. And some people, we've all worked with them, are like, this is not happening, this is my show. And the boys were so gracious to us and just played along. I mean, I remember the first scene that we we did with them um when they come, we were in the hallway, and I'm like, and I've just started, you're like, you're like improvise, just and I'm like, I'm like, call him chisel chest, chisel chest, rubber neck, and he's like, and Jared's like, what the fuck did you just call me?

SPEAKER_02 24:08

We put it, we put a we put a skull over his mouth to get rid of the word uh the F word.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Yeah, yeah. It was so fun, man. It was like they just couldn't. And then I would love to see what the the before like as we're rolling, because you could hear gents be like, stop, dude, don't start this, don't start your lap. Like we just like like it was like just and we're trying to hold it, and someone's biting their lip, like they couldn't handle you guys. Yeah, and you're like, just keep improvising, keep improvising. We're like, we just keep going and going and going and going. It was so much fun. As we get older, it is so important to stay on top of our blood work. That's why I'm incredibly proud to have Pure RX, one of our sponsors of the show. Go to AJ.purerx.co, type in time to shine in the notes, and you'll get 50% off your blood work. It's summertime. You want to go camping, you want to go off-road, get your truck, a lift kit. Go to total off-road. TJ and Dan are my guys here in Charleston. They're the best. Huge thank you to them for being sponsors of the show. You got a pavement princess, head to total off-road, get your truck lifted like a real man.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

It was uh like the creativity that we had that we got to do and got to play with. It was right this the writer's strike had just finished. And Ben Edlin had written this script before the writer strike. So this was sitting there. And I had done uh an episode just in Bellow before the writer strike, and then we waited, we waited around. And we were coming back, and I remember Kim Manners and Bob Singer. Oh, I missed the man. We were all like uh, you know, looking at this next script, and they were like, uh uh, and I said, I know how to do this, let me do it. Let me, I'll take it, let me do it. Because I was pitching to use those little prosumer cameras, and man, we had to get vetted by Surge, our DP, and the camera department and all that. And I was like, guys, they use this on reality TV all the time, and it airs. So what's the problem? Anyway, we got through it, everybody loved it. We had so much fun shooting that episode. Oh, I mean, there were many days when we were close to being done at lunch. At lunch?

SPEAKER_01 26:32

You were like, what jail should we shoot? You're like, like, let's go over here and because it that the Ghost Facers felt like we were doing uh like theater because we put up so many, I think there was like 12 or something cameras running at something, and it would just be a set and we just blend into one. And then you would put little traps or like you put the rat in the in the in the closet for Travis because he was afraid of rats, or then you sent Dustin in to go like knock on the window.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

There's so many things, man. I love I love the slow-mo. You guys can't afford slow-mo, and you're the room. People would look at that and go, What are they doing? I said they couldn't afford slow-mo. And so they're walking like in hero shot slow-mo, but there's cars zooming by in the background.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Like, are you when we did this slow-mo coming out of your garage? Uh the garage moves fine, and we're doing slow-mo. It's like it was there was so much, but it was such a creative, like, you know, and then we'd sit down for our confessionals and we would just be like, 'cause you had you made us all like come up with that first day, come up with ideas of what who our characters were, and then we didn't know what you were using it for, but then you used it, you gave everybody a little piece, and we were like, oh, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

No, it was it was super fun to to jump in and make that world, expand that world of what it was, because you guys were all gamers, and I knew didn't I didn't you guys put make a meal together? I think I had you make a meal or something. Oh yeah. Yeah. Like ahead of schedule. Like I said, you guys need to like be together for a while, not around a script, and just talk about where your character came from and how you met. Did you meet in high school? Did you meet on a job somewhere, you know, whatever it is. Uh I think that's important for you know actors to kind of, especially in this situation, I felt like it was a good way to start you guys up because then when you're on the set, you've already experienced at least a one meal together. You know, there's a common background. Uh but you know, I think the casting we had was perfect. It was so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

It's so I mean, we did no chemistry reads, like we were just all it was, and that's that's usually like the the the biggest rape with anybody if there's no like you just don't know, but we showed up and it was like we were all old friends. Everybody had a different way of delivering their comedy. You know, someone was really great at setting up the joke, the other one was just great at the straight man, like it was just this great dynamic, and everyone was fell right into it, into the place that just allowed because you you would just allow the camera to go, and we'd be just keep going and keep going and cooking until we hear cut. Like we haven't stopped, and we're like, we just keep going.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

And then we'd see you over in the monitor just beat red, just it was too much fun because it was kind of um freeing. We get so caught up in our technology of making the shows with all the cameras and with all the extra equipment we've got, with everybody got their iPads now and they can watch the the camera and all that. Sometimes I think we forget what it what we should be doing is just focusing on what the camera's doing and what the performance is doing. And that and and the sound. Sound is half the half the battle. Yeah, um, you know, but I think, you know, allowing the cameras to be like I built that one on Justin. So we had a head cam and he had this one looking back at him, you know, and he had a handheld camera. So he was built for three cameras right there. You know, so we didn't, you know, when we shot Jared waking up in the basement after he got taken by the ghost guy, Big John, um the three cameras that were shooting was Justin's camera on his head, the one in his hand was laying on the table. There was a birthday party, and then the other one was facing back, and we got done shooting it, and I said, Well, that's it. And then everybody's like, What? I said, There's no dolly here, there's no close-up. Yeah. This is if it's a close-up, we're zooming in on this camera, and as Justin wakes up, you know, he could readjust to get a better shot of Jared, of Sam. And then the guy comes behind him and shoves this rebar through his throat. Um, that was all done with one setup, basically.

unknown 30:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

And it was so it was so freeing in in a lot of ways, because we you had to figure out ahead of time where the camera might be. And then it became this kind of contest because the camera guys would reenact kind of where the actors were to make sure we would maybe if it was a visual effect shot, we used a better camera. But it became this kind of contest between you guys and the camera guys.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Remember some of the crew, like the cameras guys were playing hockey out on uh outside the stage there while we were shooting. They're like, they're like, This is great. Like because we were alling ourselves. You know, we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

I mean, you know, our DP Surge had to like light the place with whatever camping lights you had, and uh like a little bit of a glow from way up above, but there were no marks on the floor, no boom operator, no camera operator within the set. So you guys had f free reign to, like you say, a stage clay to go wherever you needed to go, wherever the story pushed you.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Yeah, it's it still is. You know, Ed Zedmoore is when people ask me, they're like, Sonny Queen is that the character, like, you know, yes, in a sense, but Ed, it just, you know, Harry and Ed. It just there was it was so much. It just there's like when we're we go over to your backyard, you would be like, like that's people what fans don't know is like we would just like go over to your house and you're like, let's just shoot some stuff. You know, we put a sheet over Travis and I'm like smacking the shit out of him for GMA for ghost martial arts.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Well, I'll pull the bit where he you grab him and you take the scissors and you start cutting inward. Like his eye is right there, you know. You're just gonna go further and cut into the.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

He says that on camera, he's like, Oh my eye, dude, what are you doing? But you're like and you're holding the camera and it's shaking. But we would just go to your house and hang up.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Oh my god, he's gonna he's gonna blind him. Uh I think that's still on the internet somewhere. I think there's uh you uh Ed goes to Iraq. It's in there some that's out there.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Oh, I gotta is that out there still? I got it.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, it's out there somewhere. I did I never took it down. I mean it's dude, dude.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

The uh that's like so many. I was I was in um I was at Camp Liberty, which where the uh um where they had us for for was there for 17 days and we're going to all the different fobs, and everywhere I go randomly when we go visit a fob, I'd show up because I'd only done CSI New York and and Supernatural at the time. And I'd randomly walk by somebody going like on the fob and they'd be like, I'm like, no way. They're all like, yeah. I'm like, that is so because they had it over there on like the DVDs going around. I was like, that again, it's it's you know, there is no out of any show that I've ever done, the fans of Supernatural are like no other than like they are the most dedicated, the most loyal fans, and I think the sh the show success is because of the community that was created around the show that was sort of like has have you ever had an experience like that? I mean to I'll I'll probably sure with the boys there's that, but that's that's the the runoff of you know supernatural.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I think uh it's hard. Number one, uh the longest I had worked on a show before that was Lois and Clark in the 90s, and that lasted four years. So to get a gift that keeps on giving, like supernatural, was unheard of. I mean, Gray's Anatomy, I I don't know the show, I don't watch it. It's it's in like year 28 or something, 25. I don't know, it's been around. There's a lot of shows that have been around. You know, some of the Dick Wolf, you know, Law and Order stuff, all that, you know, is is is been around. But I put any of the film that we did to, you know, on that show to anybody else because of the amount of variety that we did. I mean, we did a musical episode, we did a black and white episode, we did an we did a Scooby-Doo animated episode. You know, and in not many shows you get to do that kind of range of of mayhem, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Um was there was there an episode in particular with the Jensen or Jared where they from a performance standpoint, like on the emotional side? Because what I feel like they did really well, and what the show did really well is the writers and directors and producer like their they were all there was always a heartbeat. There was always some there was always something that you could anchor into, and it was there was this this this real relationship that these guys and love for each other that they they had. Um is there is there a scene in particular between the two boys that you remember that you were like this is this is what the show is. It's this this connection.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

God, I'm banging on the name. Uh maybe sacrifice. It was the end of one year. The boys were in a uh out of the way chapel with Crowley. And Sam Dean had to talk Sam off of the ledge from killing himself.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Oh, I remember this one.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yeah. And then the angels fall to earth afterwards. And I think that was uh uh really it was uh you know it was a season finale, so there was a lot of hijinks in between takes. Um but like when we were outside at that chapel, that was at a location we shot all day and into the night for all that, and it rained all day. It was like the worst, just not just a pleasant rain, you know. It was that Vancouver, yeah, there's no thunder, there's no lightning, there's no wind, it's just just wet. You know, and we just kept shooting, and it were it was everybody knew we were getting something, and then we were back on stage for the interior stuff, and Jerry Wanick and his art department are fantastic. You know, and I think they they came to bat, they came to to bat Jared and Jensen for this ending bit between the two of them that was pretty special, and we knew it on the day that it was gonna you know be one of those moments in the show. And then, you know, the the it cuts to them running outside and then they start seeing the angels, you know, falling to earth. Uh it was pretty dramatic and and you know it's rainy and wet and it's all that gross, you know, stuff that the show gives you, like the X-Files used to. Um so I think that one was pretty pr sticks pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 37:27

Because I did a lot of it so good.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

I was gonna say all the special effects and the ghosts and and and this the the the fright beats have the you if you don't care as an audience member about uh who these two are and and from that moment you meet them in the pilot and the dad and all that that real this it's a this family and that the simplicity of that just these two guys going on this this getting in the car and going on this journey. If you if that is false, this show dies on on the vine. Oh, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

And I think you know Kripke says this uh some television is the character business, movies are the spectacle business because you got a giant screen and you're there for two or two and a half hours, whatever it is, uh in bigness, you know, whereas television is close-ups, it's people, it's what's going on in their head, why are they doing this? Can't they be happy, you know? Don't trust that guy, you know, any of that stuff. So um we got very fortunate that these two actors decided they wanted to do this and then keep doing it, so they kept writing new stories, and then I think it got weirder and weirder, which was a good thing because it gave them something, it wasn't the same because you know, if you look at a lot of the stories, it starts with a grisly murder or something happens, somebody's screaming, and then it goes to the boys, and they're on the road or they're doing something, and then they get the call, or you know, and so they there's a form to the show. Uh, and then the the thing that changes the form is the personal battles that they both have, either with each other or within themselves. And then once we added Cass and Bobby Singer, you know, it it opened up the the storytelling world a bit because we could play with those guys.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

So then you have then you get the call once that show ends, then you get the call for the boys. Did you have any idea? Like when I saw the trailer of the boys and then to actually sitting down and then you know, uh, you know, I'm a big fan, but it is like you're like, what just happened? It's so thing, but again, what's which I guess is that that sort of cricky through line, what you're saying, is there's so much heart in these things that you buy what just happened because they're so fucking crazy, it's so out there, but it's grounded in this, you know, real emotional, like that real you you see the human experience happening while something absolutely batshit is going on behind them. I think that's that's why it worked the way that it worked.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

Um, yeah. I mean, I talked with Eric like easily a year or two uh before the book. He was developing it, I think, maybe a year before. But we had already worked together on Revolution that went two years on NBC. I double-timed with Supernatural, and then the boys came along and I double-timed the last year or so uh with the boys and supernatural. They were kind enough. Andrew and Bob were kind enough to let me jump in and out where I needed to. Um, but with Eric, you know, he always finds a way to whatever outlandish thing is happening, there's always some reason why that has to happen. It's sometimes it's it's like something outlandish would happen. Then they would say, All right, what can we do to make it even crazier? Because because behind it is actually something that we need to tell the story. So, you know, uh the the whale getting slammed. I was there, Steve Boyham directed that episode. It was fantastic. I love Steve. I love Steve. I mean, it was so it was and we brought him in to do that episode because we knew he knew how to do it. Yeah. I shot a bunch of second unit boat stuff with with him while he was across the lake on the beach or something. But you know, when one thing that we did, you know, you you get the script and that's the Bible. Whether or not you're gonna shoot that script remains, right? You still have budgets and schedules and all that to deal with. But you get the script and you go, first thing you go is how are we gonna do that? Like you don't say we can't do that, you say how can we do it? That was kind of what our game game plan was early on. And so there was, and we tended to, and people are surprised at this, most of the big events were had real were real in that we built a 51 foot long whale that was 15 feet tall. Well the the jaw moved, the eyeballs.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

That wasn't CGI.

SPEAKER_02 42:12

Not at no, there was a couple, like the real high shot with the boat, and there was a couple of like where we added a skin layer, but that thing was on the beach outside of Toronto, and the red boat, the power boat, was in the water on a rail and it went flying into the into it real way with with blood cannons and stunt people in the boat. I mean, that was a real event. So the the fact that we were committing to that kind of because in our world, in Eric's world, we hate green screen, we don't like to use it because it never looks quite right. And so we use as little as possible. Visual effects is to augment what we shoot, not create it totally. Yeah, there's some that are creative, but nowadays, you know, gravity doesn't work, physics doesn't work because you can do whatever you want with, you know, and especially AI jumping into our pond now. Um but we committed to these things, like there's the scene with uh Deep in the Dolphin where he's stealing the dolphin and he's in the van and he slams on the brakes and the dolphin. I was I shot all that, and we launched a plastic green dolphin through the window out into the street, and then we we had a a 40-foot, you know, truck drive right over it, you know, and we added to it and added blood and all that stuff. But that was those were all real events that the actors then play off of. I mean, Chase Crawford was in the driver's seat when we launched the thing across his face, you know, it goes right by him. Uh we did the giant, the guy, the little shrinky guy jumping into the the guy's uh penis. uh we built a 38 foot wide, 18 foot tall penis head with the hole that the guy could jump into. That's okay. And then there was a 40 foot urethra inside like a tunnel that he was in. And he sneezes.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

What's your thought rest walking onto the set in the morning, having your your your breakfast burrito and copy like standing there looking at it going, oh man, this is going to be fun.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

The hardest bit of all that stuff, because Brett, the um actor, uh you know, he's running around naked all day. Yeah. You know, we got to make sure he's gonna be healthy by the end of the day because it's a big giant you know set. But the hardest thing was what does rails of cocaine look like multi you know magnified by a thousand? Like what is a granule you can't just use powder because you need grains that look bigger. So we had to hand built all these rails of giant cocaine rails that he's jumping over. And it's more like the research once you get into this you now you got all this research you got to do of like all right how do there's a shot where home uh butcher comes in and grabs him and shoves him in a in a ziploc bag with cocaine and he starts doing this to to mess him up we built a 25 foot square Ziploc bag filled it with uh cornstarch or half of it and floated it just above a tramp a giant trampoline there was a side door the actor could jump in there and then he did all the bouncing around but as he bounced he acted like he was just getting thrown around and it's in the movie it's you can see a close up of him bouncing around. So the commitment by our storytellers to go big and you know don't don't rely don't use the VFX as the be all end all you know they should augment not maybe we tried to not as create as much there's enough there's all sorts of stuff created people flying and laser beams and all that yeah so with the boys though it was like uh this world that I came up with Kripke I said look if you if you think I'm in a good fit I'm in so uh yeah you're like you're like this is crazy I didn't know you had it in you this is I mean I I looked I I mean I looked at the comic you know at the graphic novels I have them all here somewhere you know and it's pretty graphic it's probably more sexually explicit than we ever got I mean not you you know but it was more about no it was you know drawn and written in 2008 I think you know Bush was in the White House all that so you know I think Kripke in his in his um brilliance decided he couldn't you know stay right with the book because then you're just retelling what's already been told.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

So he he changed a little bit of the things here and there and kept it you know but he made it all grounded in reality you know that's I was that's what I was going to say that's that's that's the key because even when we've we've all seen adaptations of things and you're they're like they're either so they stay within the concentration of what the book was and if they don't give it a little bit of its own flavor it again it doesn't have the heart and so it's so what he did there I feel was it just he brought off the page but then shot it full of life and like what you have to be able to do.

SPEAKER_02 47:28

And I've always said this casting is 80% of your work as a director maybe as a writer too that if you get the right people in that spot then a lot of tension goes away because you can write them anything and they'll make it believable or you can you know and then you find you're this person's stronger with this kind of story and this person's better with this. And I gotta say over the course of eight years even though it's five seasons it was eight years the cast was nothing but wonderful and Carl Urban is number one on the call sheet and he he takes that seriously um I love it. I did a bunch of Hercs and Zenas in the 90s kind of as my summer project or whatever and because I had time off and they'd they'd say yeah come on down do another one. I loved working down there and Carl and Anthony Starr were both from that world of you know New Zealand filmmaking. And back and over there um you're if you're a if you're an actor you're treated like you're part of the crew. Yeah you're nothing more yeah you're part of the crew. And if you are late or if you waste time you're wasting the crew's time. Yeah and and so that's how I think Carl and and aunt learned and so they were very conscious of making sure you know and then Carl leads by example because number one on the call sheet if you're not then everybody can mess around because they do you know all of us have been through that. So I think Kripke got lightning in a bottle with the cast and then the writers came up with some fantastic stuff and you know we we uh did okay. You know and I think me and Eric would we talked a lot about um the overall kind of storytelling about this world. It's a world where there's thousands of superheroes. So superheroes are like you know Volkswagens. They're everywhere, right? You know they're just they're so it's not that big a deal. So we tried to make like the visual effects and the thunder and lightning of it all uh kind of be mundane in a way uh so it wasn't you know we used to have to stop everything for the visual effects shot lock it off do all this and then go on well we didn't want it we didn't want the VFX to take over they you know when it was a story point sure but if it was something that was something happening and it could be in the background why not do that we did that several times so it was just kind of like yeah you just took off with them and you know dropped him in space. Um you know no big deal moving on yeah no big deal yeah moving on exactly so we tried to make it almost like a documentary we were handheld probably 90 maybe 80% of the of the time um it just had this kind of feel at the beginning in the first year we kind of kept the soups very Kubricky and balanced and a stable world and then as their world crumbled they became more like the boys side the boys side was like punk rock and handheld and moving cameras and then that and then as the other side started crumbling we we did the same thing. So then all the world was kind of in a handheld it wasn't like jerky cammy it was just kind of just handheld so there's a little bit of life in the in the lens.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Now speaking of of of of the look and feel when you first saw Jensen as Soldier Boy in his performance because I I texted Jensen when I first saw like the first couple episodes I'm like bro this is unbelievable like some of your best work that just soap is because you it's just a dip it's he's such a handsome dude and it's like you know but he just comes in there and you're just like who is this dude? It's so polar opposite than what what the fans are used to. Were you like watching this going like the fans are not going to know what to do with this guy.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

Uh no I think the fan I when I in a good way I mean like this is like I mean yes for sure. I think um I was the one that told him not to shave first of all uh at the beginning because he's coming out of Russia and he had that giant beard that was his beard he hadn't shaved for like four months or something. I said don't worry you'll you'll get it down you'll get it back but we want you to not be like because when he breaks out his first scene the first day on set he's naked. Yeah he's like great thanks Kripke thanks yeah just come out and doing uh you know I said no man you got to come out of the cryogenic chamber like a a mad caveman yeah you know so but right away he got in with the crew with the his sense of humor his sense of belonging he and Carl became really good golf buddies and yeah you know I think I wasn't surprised because I always thought there's a big superhero or there's a big action star waiting to happen with with Jensen. He just needs to grow he just needs to grow into it he's too pretty it when he was too young he was too pretty. Now I think he could do whatever he wants I know he keeps working on a lot of shows and stuff I'm like why don't you get out there and you know I mean there was a rumor there for a while that he l of him as Batman I'm like dude he's got the jawline for it.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Well he can I don't I think he does doesn't he do the animated one or something but there was like I think when they were looking for you know how they're always there's it it pops up in the fandom world of like summoning the suit.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

Yeah yeah I don't know may I don't know if that's something he wants to do. I think you know I could see him doing a diehard kind of thing or a buddy cop thing, you know, where you know he's he doesn't have to put on the suit. But you know I was never surprised by how he took the job and how you know how good he is in it. And especially after just finishing the Vault Rising it's a whole different Jensen now you see without the beard in 1950 you know he's clean shaven and it's a whole different world for him.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

So now now pure doing something period like so specific to that and technology and the whole bit like from from telling that story and performance wise what was what was that transition like? Because you're going from the boys where it's it's this modern day you know and you've got all the the ability to to tell stories well he would just be able to text or he'd be able to like this how do you then from that narrative I mean uh it was fun for me because I'm one of the older ones on the crew uncle uncle Phil there.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

I remember when we only had one phone in the house you know they kept our department was doing stuff where they'd put a phone here and a phone there I'm like no get rid of that there's only one phone in anybody's house period it's 1950. Phones are barely in the houses right now yeah yeah exactly and they all they all redial so there's a big learning curve especially for some of the crew and some of the younger crew with they don't know any of anything without the internet and this is you know so there was there's always a bit of you don't want to go like too far like they didn't want us to go too far into like the noir kind of feel of the book like so there's no fedoras and you know there's a lot of smoking but you know it was fun it's fun to me because it's every time I direct it's a puzzle. Each episode is a puzzle and you gotta figure out where the pieces that you need to finish the puzzle. So doing the Vault Rising was quite extraordinary because you know everybody's in older suits and uh cars you gotta that's a different whole another McGilla because you're in Toronto and you gotta find you got to find a car that's from like 1946 to 49. Yeah because we're in 1950 you know if it's a 1963 you can't use it. Yeah and you know musically is the same everything you you now put a stop nothing beyond this you know year. So uh you know Jensen looks great in the suit as we know. You know I did the Supernatural where we went back in time and he became a uh a worker with Elliot Nets oh yeah in that one and that was a noir kind of thing and I did all sorts of shadow shots and it was fun and Jensen got to shoot a Tommy gun all that all that um but you know I think in any of these it's a puzzle and you try and figure out what you need to tell the story of the puzzle you know with the puzzle pieces.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Yeah I I think with those two you know massive franchises where you know in supernatural just there was just a lot more runway with other showrunners and stuff coming through and like you said the top that the boys continually wanted to come back and make it um I mean it it it really has set the the like the supernatural how even how it ends and and the way that was all sort of brought together at the end. The way that the boys have ended without giving any spoiler alerts though you should be how what was your your your I love the ending.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

I was I actually there was some people I saw online were like here or there you know but it's like how do you keep everybody happy you just got to tell the story you want to tell it yeah and Eric fretted over that two of the two of our fine writers uh Judah and Neary and uh uh David Reed uh Eric uh unfortunately was part of the uh Palisades fire he all his family and pets all got out but he was gonna direct the finale I was gonna direct the first one and the fifth one and then he and I were gonna swap I was gonna do the ending and then he was going to do the fifth one because he had a his oldest son is graduating and he's up for some uh football scholarships on the East so he was gonna be doing some traveling blah blah blah and then the fire happens and then it's like all right I'm doing the final and I've done season finales yeah but not a series finale so that was like uh oh this is different this is new um and it wasn't it was an ending but I wasn't ending I was going on to Vault Rising a month after we were done but it was kind of crazy it was weird because all the actors were realizing they were gonna be saying goodbye to these characters that they loved also the paycheck I'm sure but it was you know at you know on the end of uh a person a uh a character we uh clap them you know off everybody the whole crew comes in and gives them a round of applause well this was almost a daily occurrence the last two or three weeks on the boys because we were saying goodbye to another character and they would do a little heartfelt speech and we would record them all. We started just keeping the cameras rolling. I think we recorded most of them. You know Carl gave an extremely tearful one for not tearful for him but for the rest of us you know everybody you know realized that this was finally ending and it was hard to say goodbye to it. So I'm sure Jared and Jensen went through it on I wasn't around on the uh supernatural ending but uh you know everybody goes through that ending you know bit of grief to say goodbye to a character you have too so yeah you know it's uh there's a moment you go oh I don't wake up tomorrow and do this again I do I get to get on a plane and go home.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

Yeah it it really does it does like for even for the like with for for SEAL team and for for Seaside New York it was you know C Side New York was nine years and SEAL team was eight years. And it is just it's such a ch a part of your life and in those times like you know on on Seaside New York people had gotten married the same people had gotten divorced you know people had kids you know there was like you you you shared these incredible life moments and then all of a sudden it's over yeah and but the show lives on that's the weird thing it's like if the show is still Aaron you're like I'm and it's it's the weirdest thing because people then people assume that you're still working on it like no I that I I did stop doing that like two years and they're like what you're you're not filming that I'm like no no it's also like if you were to go to Vancouver and you'd run into Brad Creaser or some of you know somebody from the crew Kevin Parks or whatever it would be like no time has passed because you're you're right back into where you were you know it's a family thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:12

We create these you know carnival families in a way you know that aren't aren't our blood relatives you know but like you say there's there's uh people that get married have kids get the house but you know there's a few that we lost along the way Kim Manners was one of them you know and you know people are buying homes people are buying cars the job is suc is making success for everybody and uh it's you know it's it's sad when it all you know drops away. Um I finally moved after we got done la in March of uh Vault Rising I actually moved out of Canada and it was the first time in twenty years that I didn't leave something in like I used to leave my weather gear and you know a printer and a coffee maker and whatever else I you know built up over 20 years. When I left Vancouver I shipped it all to Toronto and then I was in Toronto I had an apartment for eight years different ones but I just kept it in storage and then I finally moved home and it's all in the garage and bins. And my wife after a couple weeks she's like you're still here and there's stuff in the garage out and it's it's like you know wet weather gear and I'm in you know Southern California I'm like well this is staying in this box until I need it to go with me somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

It is true. And I I know we talked a little bit offline before the before the show started stuff but but you know the ghost facers are literally only characters that didn't die. Hey man I'm in I'm in on the ghost facers it would be so fun to and I know just even saying this out loud to the fans of of of the potential of us of you know some type of something getting the getting the getting it back together and then entering back into the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

It could be the only thing I don't have is I don't have the swing set in the backyard anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Otherwise you can come back and start we will do that was so I we gotta find will you send me some of those tapes so I can put that they're online somewhere I know they're online.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

I think you type in ghost martial arts and you'll see is it really there oh I gotta I gotta see this. Yeah it it would be it would be so Ed Ed Ed goes to Iraq that's what that one's called that's called I'm trying to one of the other ones we did there's another one too many and then we did the whole we did the whole web series thing um that that with Patrick and those guys um I don't know if that's on I don't I don't think that's online anywhere near anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

And then we did the Misha one which is still awesome. I know the Misha one's online where he they would just that was my house he's running through my house. Yeah he's like he's like did he say apocalypse or a box ellipse? You chattered my chatter and then the water thing like and that was so crazy because like we called Meach and we're like hey Michael we'll fly you down we flew him down he we had him for one day remember and he like showed up he took a town we got him a town carriage shows up to your house and we're like oh this is Uncle Phil's house and we're like yeah I'm like it's cool comes in we literally had him for four or five hours we just shot everything it was such a sport he came up with the idea with um with the hammer coming out of his coat and popping out to shatter the shatter and he was like this is great and then we did this the spray bottle for the it's like so fun. Yeah and uh and then he like turned around and went back. And he got I remember my son Sam was here and he was probably in grade school or maybe I don't know uh Misha got stuck in one of the rooms and slammed the doors or you guys slam the doors and the door locked and we have it's in there like we were like so he comes in because he keeps we we run away and every door we open he's there and Travis like slamming like well we go to the next one go bah and then when we were going to try to get to the next one he we were said the second take it was like stuck people like but Travis like oh let me get and then we open it up and it's just like pulling he's like hi but it ended up staying in the thing but the door got slammed so hard it was we I mean we we just came in and just took over your house.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:40

Yeah you did you did it was so good.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:44

Well I I I can't tell you man I so appreciate you coming on the show man I got nothing but love for you've always been you've been so kind to me you've you've really in in in so many different ways been uh such a dear friend and and um have put me in positions in my career that have have really propelled me forward and I I I just really thank you. Um you're one you're one of the best out there and uh uh I'm I'm always grateful to uh to chat with you and uh um I just appreciate you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

Right on man well same back at you I I can't tell you I can tell people all the time the Ghost Facers is like probably my top of my list on the supernatural just because mine too it was so weird and so fun and so crazy and it all worked. It everything we did worked within the show. I mean it was you know it was a Ben Edlin you know script that I love working with Ben and but there was so much added to it all those testimonials was not perfect script and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

Yeah it would be fun to find a way to to have the these these bumbling characters Ed and Harry reunite and fall fall into the world again of and not know why they're there not know who these people are these apparitions showing up.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

You almost need to do the beginning of the pilot where one of you shows up and you say Spruce is on a hunting trip we gotta find him he's up no he's gone to his he's he got lost at a sweat lodge something you know he's like one sixteenth he's like well he's one sixteenth like Native American or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

He like he's he's all he went to do a a walkabout or something like that. No that's that because that's Sam's line when he shows up right he's like Dean Dean sorry yeah he goes yeah he goes dad's been uh Dan's on a hunting trip and he hasn't been seen in three days steal the whole beginning of the pilot would be so good man steal it I'm not steal it you can't steal it it would be wrong to do that I mean it would just be appropriated I guess somehow anyway who knows man fingers crossed let's let's uh let's k continue to kick that rock and uh uh much love by much continued success give my best to the family and uh uh I'll see you down the road buddy all right same back at you man all right take care bye